Does God Exist ?

[Allen Walker]

Holy Crap, my idea for a debate forum got approved

This argument has been going on for years and it never ceases to die. And pobably never will.

Anyway, post on here if you think the Man upstairs exists or not.

I believe in God because this world must have came from somewhere right? Its obvious that only he would make the world and for us able to run, grab stuff, hear stuff, and see things.

Yea those are my thoughts. DISCUSS !!

[Lifrasthir]

I believe he is.

[Lucrecia]

I belive that God exists. But then again things have been proven from Science that some things that God has done is not true. However, there has been things that proves that things God is believed to have done is true. One example is the Big Bang Theory.

http://www.cs.utsa.edu/~ajohnson/books/AngelsAndDemons/AngelsAndDemons.pdf

Somewhere in this book it is proven that it can happen. Just skip down to Chapter 19 and go to the paragraph where they talk about recreating the Big Bang theory.

[Lifrasthir]

Why is this thread even up? I would think that, especially in this "debate" that someone wouldn't be able to handle themself...

[Lucrecia]

Why is this thread even up? I would think that, especially in this "debate" that someone wouldn't be able to handle themself...

Yeah that's true. But so far so good.;)

[Lifrasthir]

I guess...Don't get me wrong I love talking about this but at the same I don't want people to feel like I'm telling them that I'm right and they're wrong. These kinds of conversations never went good for me.

[[teehee]

I dont believe in god. Im not going to go into massive detail but I just dont believe in him. I don't think there can be something that powerful to make a whole existance. To me, there isn't enough proof.

Im not against religion or anything, but it does my head in when people try and convince me to believe in their religion. Without offending anyone, I do think parts of religions like Jehova's Witness is pretty stupid like not believing blood transfusions, even in an emergency. Stuff like that.

Edit: Tempus, I dont think people are going to start flamming here so ill leave this open since alot of people will probably want to give opinions and discuss. If it gets out of hand i'll sort it out. ;)

[Lucrecia]

I guess...Don't get me wrong I love talking about this but at the same I don't want people to feel like I'm telling them that I'm right and they're wrong. These kinds of conversations never went good for me.

Yeah. I guess you just have to watch what you say. But see some people have to understand that everyone has an opinion. I belive in both the ways of God and Science. So there are no arguments there.....I hope.:blink:


it does my head in when people try and convince me to believe in their religion..

Yeah that can get annoying sometimes.

[Rev-SQ]

Nah, not really. There isn't any proof that god exists, but there is proof that he doesn't. Personally, I think that God is hope that has gotten out of hand. Something that people created to keep hope alive, or support their ideas and such. For example, there might've been some guy who was really terrorfied of sex and so started preaching about how according to god sex was taboo, which makes no sense whatsoever. I mean, if we stop having sex, all life would cease to exist in a couple of years. In other words, if that were true, then god's purpose would be to kill us off, thus making him our enemy. I know that the "sex is taboo" thing isn't really in effect anymore though.

Many other things that the Old Testament deemed imoral and sinful are natural. So either God is involved in some sorta strange love/hate relationship with us, or he doesn't exist.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/subjectarchive/sex.html

Read some of the articles there. Seriously, waaaay overboard.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0201/valentine.html

[Cathryn]

I don't think this really is a debate, nothing to debate over, its mainly views and opinions on peoples belief in the existance of a greater being.

o__________o (what i just typed sounded creepy in my head)

I can't really say in the existance of god, i am christian but in the existance of god i cannot be sure either way, science and religeon collides, im being told the scientific facts of the earth in Biology, where-as in Religeous Ed, im being told of the Ten commandments and the life God depicted us.

It's constant contradiction between the two so i preety much stay in the middle on my belief in god.
At the point i did loose my Nan and Grandad i did end up becoming quite stuck into christianity because i always thought i felt them with me and that god had sent them to help me through the rest of my life.
But when i was approuched with Scientific vaules of the earths birth or the "big bang" i began to doubt Gods existance and the creation of the universe.
I know i'll never be sure about this topic because its a constant ongoing religeous and scientific battle.

[Lifrasthir]

Edit: Tempus, I dont think people are going to start flamming here so ill leave this open since alot of people will probably want to give opinions and discuss. If it gets out of hand i'll sort it out. ;)

Alright...I'll go with it.

We've had these kinds of discussions at school alot...it's like, religion is supposed to be banned from school but we talk about it anyways...People were talking about it in algebra once and I was listening...I think the main girl that was talking wasn't the right person to answer the questions the others were throwing out...She made it sound so convicting when she said that "sinners go to hell and you have to believe in God to go to heaven." That's not entirely it. She never acts Christian, and I know I have no say in whether she actually is or not cause I'm not God, but from her additude and everything she wasn't the right person to be talking. Most kids are pretenders at school.

:ninja: Edit: Sorry, forgot to give the point of the story.
The point is that when people tell the salvation that Christ offers it is more important that those people hear the story rather than make them feel like they're the worthless sinners going to hell. If they turn down salvation that's their choice. You can't do anything about it because it's not you saving them. So when people talk like "I'm a Christian so I'm better than you damned sinners" then they're heart may be in the right place but it's not going to do them any good.

[Allen Walker]

Most non-believers of God are people that ahve bever really tried to be drawn to him. If non-believers got witnessed to, they might change.

[Lifrasthir]

Not exactly Ragnarok. If you generalize most non-believers into the category "They've never really tried to be drawn to Him" that's not gunna do anything. You actually do have to consider their primal knowledge of Christianity and their religious status in the first place...it's different for each person though...

[Rev-SQ]

Yeah, most people's religion is heavily based on the environment they grew up in. My parents were non-religious, as am I, but I did learn a bit about god and the bible, but still chose not to believe it.

[Lifrasthir]

Exactly. I grew up in a religious home...but that didn't affect my opinion about religion.

[Lucrecia]

My dad's non-religious. So I'm sort-of like that too. But there are some point of views in Christianity that I have, though.

[[teehee]

Yeah, most people's religion is heavily based on the environment they grew up in. My parents were non-religious, as am I, but I did learn a bit about god and the bible, but still chose not to believe it.

Yeah, same. My grandma is a little, I think but not overly. Goes to Church at christmas and stuff but not like, every Sunday or anything like that. Other than that, no one is in my family really.

[Xion]

thats a very touchy subject, and thats a question you really should ask yourself and not anyone else

[masamune]

I've recently graduated in university, in pharmacy, so for me the human being is just a big amount of cells working together, the feelings are just neuronal function in certain brain areas, and so on. I'm no saying that god doesn't exist, so please read to the end and try to understand me.
I don't believe in miracles cause a patogen don't act diferently if you are a good person or not, same for genetic diceases and all. So the point is, even if God exists he sure doesn't control our lives.
But what is God after all? I strongly don't believe there's a being with power to create things and judge our acts. But if you see God as a Power, some sort of existence that rules the world so it MAY be. I believe in science, but as a scientist i know there's a lot of things we don't know, especially in astronomy and cosmic things, etc (*side note: poor explanation cause of my poor english).
Going on, i think religion and the belief that god is a being that judge us is just a way to escape from the scary things in life, from the fear of death and all, a way for the humans get strengh to keep living. Just think how would you feel (the ones who believe in god with no doubt) if you learned that God doesn't exist and that you are alone....
Religion and God as its teached is a human creation, for sure, so nobody can say its God fault that something bad happened, its just fault of the humans that use the beliefs of people to their own interests. Don't forget the using of "gods" to manipulate people in ancient times and the Vaticano is the most political and hipocrit organization in the world.
Finally i'll end the post: I don't follow any religion, but i think that people that follow one aren't wrong. In the end what makes this worlds a better place isn't what we believe in but what we do, and if religion is a way to tell you to be a good guy i think its a great thing. Now you can start throwing stones at me hehehehe.

[Lucrecia]

I've recently graduated in university, in pharmacy, so for me the human being is just a big amount of cells working together, the feelings are just neuronal function in certain brain areas, and so on. I'm no saying that god doesn't exist, so please read to the end and try to understand me.
I don't believe in miracles cause a patogen don't act diferently if you are a good person or not, same for genetic diceases and all. So the point is, even if God exists he sure doesn't control our lives.
But what is God after all? I strongly don't believe there's a being with power to create things and judge our acts. But if you see God as a Power, some sort of existence that rules the world so it MAY be. I believe in science, but as a scientist i know there's a lot of things we don't know, especially in astronomy and cosmic things, etc (*side note: poor explanation cause of my poor english).
Going on, i think religion and the belief that god is a being that judge us is just a way to escape from the scary things in life, from the fear of death and all, a way for the humans get strengh to keep living. Just think how would you feel (the ones who believe in god with no doubt) if you learned that God doesn't exist and that you are alone....
Religion and God as its teached is a human creation, for sure, so nobody can say its God fault that something bad happened, its just fault of the humans that use the beliefs of people to their own interests. Don't forget the using of "gods" to manipulate people in ancient times and the Vaticano is the most political and hipocrit organization in the world.
Finally i'll end the post: I don't follow any religion, but i think that people that follow one aren't wrong. In the end what makes this worlds a better place isn't what we believe in but what we do, and if religion is a way to tell you to be a good guy i think its a great thing. Now you can start throwing stones at me hehehehe.


Whoa, well said. :nod:

[Askyria]

I sincerely think He exists. My family used to be Buddhist -- well no, not really, they just were because their parents were, and we eventually became Christian. I really think there's a lot of proof he exists, but I don't feel like dishing them out so don't ask me to xD

[Interficio Nocte]

Cool, a debate forum.....

Anyway, I think God exists mainly because I think that the Big Bang Theory could happen but the chances of something like that happening is just to low, plus I am Christian.

I do however agree with Lucrecia and Masamune that some things cannot be explained by religion, and some can and that some things can be proven by science and some can't.

I think that in the end every human being on the planet who has a religion, whether it be Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Etc. or believes in that particular thing because deep down everybody wants to believe that someone is greater than them, that we have a purpose, a reason for existence, some fill that need with religious beliefs. Others fill it with beliefs that go with science, Ex. big Bang Theory.

In the end, I think that God is real and exists and other religions and scientific theories were made by people who did not believe in God and were, as I said before, trying to find out why or how they came to be.

Did that make any sense?:blink:

[Tidus]

I'm not in the middle....leaning...or thinking....I truly believe God exists. Science can come up with whatever it wants to come up with. We and everything around us had to come from somewhere. Who created the universe? Did the galaxy just appear out of nothingness? These are questions that the most brilliant of minds will never be able to wrap their heads around. To those in the middle, what happens if you see God as being real in death? What will you say? ughhhh.....I wasn't sure you existed.....but now that I see you are real....I believe! (this is a genuine question for those in the middle....I don't mean to come off in a derogatory manner...so please excuse me if it seems that way)

Science is great for some things......but I don't consider science the truth in everything. Science enable us to build bombs that can destroy cities, medicines that can cure, and ships that can fly into space. Why hasn't science presented us with a way of bringing back the dead, a cure for AIDS and Cancer, or a way of controlling mother nature. My point is that there are things that are incomprehensible to the human mind. I am grateful to science. I just think that science has pushed some into the mindset that seeing is believing. Some people just don't seem to have faith anymore.

I know this is corney.....but

I believe in a million dollars.....
I believe that a man stepped on the moon.....
I believe that their are 7 continents on Earth......

I have never seen a million dollars, actually seen a man step on the moon, or been to every continent in the world. I do believe they exist.....because of faith in what I've been told. I don't need to see to believe. I know God exists.

I agree with Tempus though....this subject is extremely touchy and personal for everyone

[[teehee]

Hmmm. I dont think you can really use those things as an example since they're all proven to be true or exist. xD But I do see what you mean. Fair enough to you, I just need more proof than "You'll see him when you die".

the Big Bang Theory could happen but the chances of something like that happening is just to low

No offense, but I personally find that more believable than a man who created a whole universe and the whole of existance but no ones ever seen him.

[Allen Walker]

The Big Bang is the most retarded theory I've ever read. Your trying to say my soul is an accident? Sorry, you phail at life.

[Misschoco]

The Big Bang is the most retarded theory I've ever read. Your trying to say my soul is an accident? Sorry, you phail at life.
but at least it has some kind of proof that it happened.what if our lives were actually some big accident?


personally i dont believe in god but as usual in science...cause at least it can be proved.
No ones seen him yet or heard him so how on earth can you prove he exists instead of saying 'its in the bible' or 'when you die you'll see him'

sure about 80%/90% of the world believe in him but what if all this time this person you believed in did not exist in whatever aspect. I dont believe in God sending non believers to hell which i'v heard alot of people say but not everyone. If that was true then that would make good as bad as satin who also doesnt happen to exist and meaning it'd go against the fact he is 'benevolent'

some people say that God or anything relating to him gives us a purpose-did that make sense :blink: but what if our lives have no purpose...everyones looking for a supposed meaning of life but what if there isnt :blink:

sorry i hope i didnt offend anyone

[Allen Walker]

sure about 80%/90% of the world believe in him but what if all this time this person you believed in did not exist in whatever aspect.

False Statement my friend.

Only about 4% of the world proclaimed that they were Christian which is uber sad.

[Misschoco]

False Statement my friend.

Only about 4% of the world proclaimed that they were Christian which is uber sad.
after looking it up its 33% around 2 billion people in the world :rolleyes:

[[teehee]

The Big Bang is the most retarded theory I've ever read. Your trying to say my soul is an accident? Sorry, you phail at life.

If you cant post properly in this thread then don't. Give a worthy arguement or opinion instead of "You phail at life".

I think the planet being a fragment of another exploded rock is a better explaination than "God just made it". Im not saying its 100% right because Im not a scientist, I dont know, but to me its far more believable.

[Misschoco]

I think the planet being a fragment of another exploded rock is a better explaination than "God just made it".
true ^_^ i just cant really go along with something that has no feasible evidence.I just cant believe in his existence if i could be believing in someone who may not exist,has no proof or evidence that he exists or gives false hope

[Lucrecia]

There are a few explanations for the Big Bang theory to actually happeb. They still haven't been proven true....yet.

1) Two ultrathin particle beams facing opposite directions and and then colliding into one single point at enormous speed and then creating life.

2) Different gases in the air somehow creating life. (read that somewhere don't remeber the whole thing)

Well that's all I can remember for now.

[Rekhyt]

Personally I do not believe in God as from my perspective there is no actual proof that God exists at all.

As for the big bang it has been suggested that there are an infinite number of parallel universes (a theory which has been mathematically and scientifically supported) and it has been theorised that these different universes do project, among other things, forces. Now if that is possible it is probable that the universe could have been made by another universe (which was made by another, which was made by another...).

To me that makes more sense than, "God did it."

[Ringlets]

I believe that science has the answer to everything. The universe, the end of the universe, creation etc. For things like miracles, attempting to prove the existance of God or a higher being, i like to quote that wonderful line from The Matrix Revolutions, all three films of which shed an alternate view on life:

"Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose!"

I think that life was created due to simple chance. Out of the billions of planets, one of them had to get the exact carbon chain right.

[Misschoco]

I believe that science has the answer to everything. The universe, the end of the universe, creation etc. For things like miracles, attempting to prove the existance of God or a higher being, i like to quote that wonderful line from The Matrix Revolutions, all three films of which shed an alternate view on life:

"Illusions, Mr. Anderson, vagaries of perception. Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose!"

I think that life was created due to simple chance. Out of the billions of planets, one of them had to get the exact carbon chain right.
all so true....to me personally

science proves and will prove a hell of a lot of things.It has the power to give evidence.
and out existence out of simple chance....there really isnt a meaning to life we are just here by chance

why is it absolutely compulsory to find a meaning to life?

[Enedok]

I will only post once in this thread since we will probably will not find the answer to that question here. I will keep it simple.

Its neither confirmed or disconfirmed that God exist.

I believe.

[Ringlets]

Yea me and Rekhyt (although i dont think he cared at all) recently had a Physics lesson about this whole proving and disproving of theories. The whole sort of "We perceive when we see" sort of thing makes sense.

And like Misschoco said, maybe the meaning of life is good, but maybe its so horribly morbid that finding out could cause thousands of religious devouts to go insane over basing their entire lifes on incorrect beliefs.

Then again, if these religions are incorrect, then what almighty force gave birth to the truth of the meaning?

[Inferno187]

No he doesnt..
Stop looking for him..
Dont call him he'll call you
Idiots <<

[Interficio Nocte]

why is it absolutely compulsory to find a meaning to life?

I don't think that it is compulsory to find a meaning to life, I just think that as human beings it comforts us to know that we were made for a purpose and have a meaning.

[Pulse]

I really do believe in God, I got thrown off my physics course at college because of my views on the big bang. They said if I wanted to do a religous studies lesson then i should have taken it as an A Level course. I told them I wanted to be an architect and that they could kiss my ass if they thought otherwise. HAHA. Ah well, I failed physics at AS anyways.

But yeah, I do believe in God, and also, there is proof that jesus existed, there is no proof he was the son of god, but there is proof that he existed. (bible)

Josh

[masamune]

Its kinda funny to see a person who believe fiercely in God being so rude about other people's opinions... I've already said what i think about this, but how this is a discussion i think that building some questions is more important than stay claiming you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.
First of all there's one thing nobody can deny: what we know about God isn't teached for him, instead is teached by us for other people, so what we know is more than anything a cultural teaching, be it real or not. We were always told that God exists and we've grown (i'm not sure if the verbal time is correct...) with this in mind and this is the same thing that occured with ancient civilizations that believed in their Gods which today nobody believes in (grecy, rome etc). The difference is that "we" are really sure that our God exist, isn't that quite prepotent? But you can say that we have some "facts" that prove that what the bible says is true, like fragments of Noah's ark, buuuuuuuut, we must understand one thing: the bible is full with metaphoric descriptions, and is of the human nature to explain with religion what they can't understand scientifically. Just to date, the passage about the sea trepass is one of the most metaphoric of all (i know this cause i have a friend which is almost a father).
And i agree with Misschoco, we are always trying to think our life has some purpose, but and if it hasn't? Look at the animals, their life has any purpose other than keep living? for these questions my answer (and is MY answer, not the truth) is: we only try to find purpose cause we have such a big intelligence that enables us to question our own existence. My only purpose in life is to keep living, this is cause of my surviving instinct, any other purpose i have exists only to fill my time with things other than eating and reproducing and are all generated by our culture (i don't think a human that never lived in society aspires to keep a moral life and a good profission or recgonizement etc).

[Rikku]

If you cant post properly in this thread then don't. Give a worthy arguement or opinion instead of "You phail at life".

<3 I luff you!

Rekhyt , I believe, has already stated my views on the Big Bang theory. It's pretty farfetched at first glance, but once you get into more detail, it makes a lot of sense. It's sort of like evolution, which simply can't be summed up at all and is a complicated process. I've heard various arguments against evolution -- the most popular being that mutations result in negative concequences. I used to believe that argument pretty much terminated the theory of evolution (when I was like, 10?) until I found out that lactose tolerant people had mutant genes.

Aaaanyway, I personally do not believe in God. There are a lot of things in the bible that I personally believe to be flawed and confusing and cannot be simply explained away with facts like some statements are not literal. I won't go into it until somebody offers an argument in response, though. I also can't promise that I'll be able to find specific scriptures, but I'll try my best~

I also think that I saw a comment that said something like most people who didn't believe in God did not make a real effort to learn about Christianity or to draw close to him. Or something like that. I'd like to say that I completely contradict everything about that statement since I study the bible with a Jehovah's Witness and came pretty close to converting to Christianity a year ago. 'Tis not good to make assumptions. ;D

[Rev-SQ]

Give it a few millenia and Christianity will be replaced by some new crap religion worshiping some other omnipotent god called Mark or something.

I remember reading Tidus' post on page 3. I can seriously argue that. *Cracks knuckles*

Okay. First off, science didn't come up with anything. Either it's a fact or an unproven theory based on fact. We don't have to come from somewhere. Like you said, we can't wrap our minds around everything, so perhaps somehow we came from nowhere. Maybe we just are and don't need somewhere from whence we came. As for who created the universe, whoever said it was a who? If the universe didn't exist yet, then I fail to see how someone can already exist. In the beginning, it was said God created Earth, not the universe. Now that we know there is a universe, we've convieniently changed it to God created the universe. More evidence that God is a figment of our imagination.

If you see God in death, you can't really say much. You're dead. You can't think either. I don't see why you would have basic bodily functions if you're an intangible soul.

Science can provide a way to raise the dead, to cure AIDS, etc, etc. We just haven't discovered it yet. For example, it may be possible to ressurect a human by sending nanobots inside to repair/replace the dead and damaged cells, restoring life. This is why there are programs for cryogenics freezing people in suspended animation for over 1000 years. When ressurection is achieved, then it will be possible to COMPLETELY prove wheter God exists, once and for all. Not to say that people won't create a bogus theory just to prove that God does exist.

Btw, we can already control Mother Nature. Not much, but we can change when it'll rain, snow, hail, etc, etc, and where.

You may not have of seen a million dollars, or seen a man step on the moon, or seen the 7 continents of earth, but there are people who have. Plenty of people. But can you honestly say there is anyone alive who has see God? Who isn't senile or hallucinating, that is.

I don't need to see to believe either. I just need to see the proof to believe.

[Rekhyt]

I think this sums up my opinions on religion, faith and science.
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2290/sciencevsfaithdz2.png

[Ringlets]

Lol. Its true though. Take the catholic church. They use the sheer anger of every italian person to scare everyone into believing what they do or shutting up.

[Misschoco]

I don't think that it is compulsory to find a meaning to life, I just think that as human beings it comforts us to know that we were made for a purpose and have a meaning.
yh its not compulsory but some people act like it is.Some babies get born by accident (sorry i dont mean to be mean) meaning our existence could be just an accident-made sense?
If god doesn't tell us the answers to the universe,science does

[Rikku]

Give it a few millenia and Christianity will be replaced by some new crap religion worshiping some other omnipotent god called Mark or something.

( . . . )

If you see God in death, you can't really say much. You're dead. You can't think either. I don't see why you would have basic bodily functions if you're an intangible soul.

First of all, I agree with majority of your post, Jason. But, the popular interpretation of the bible actually doesn't imply that there's a soul. Soul refers to a 'body', as observed in several scriptures. It also states that you go to Hell, which is a figurative expression for the grave despite the popular belief. In other words, you're not conscious at all. You're just gone because the chemicals in your brain are all gone too. Therefore, you cannot see God.

This interpretation can be argued mercilessly, of course, but all interpretations can. I would dig up some of the books the Jehovah's Witness gave me supporting those statements but I'm totally too lazy. I also have no idea where they are to begin with. Plus, I doubt you care since it doesn't really contradict the point you're making.

Also, assuming that we're still alive and intelligent in a few millenia, I believe it's perfectly plausible for Christianity to be replaced to happen. Don't forget, a few millenia ago, everybody believed in polytheism everywhere to the point of constructing entire temples, giant pyramids, undergoing sacrificial rites like killing their people, etc while coexisting quite peacefully. Then Christianity came along and -- well, you all know the rest. Those religions are pretty much dead.

(Oddly enough, Christianity still retains characteristics of these polytheistic religions. Christmas itself is proof, which is odd since Halloween is frowned upon.
Not only that, but the prophecies made about the ultimate fate of humankind is noticeably similar to prophecies of other ancient religions. Well, somebody could always argue that it is coincidence -- it's all ultimately impossible to prove or disprove.)

[masamune]

(Oddly enough, Christianity still retains characteristics of these polytheistic religions. Christmas itself is proof, which is odd since Halloween is frowned upon.
Not only that, but the prophecies made about the ultimate fate of humankind is noticeably similar to prophecies of other ancient religions. Well, somebody could always argue that it is coincidence -- it's all ultimately impossible to prove or disprove.)

And we all know that the followers of these religions were considered siners... And what a better way to dominate people than saing that the world will end and they will pay for their sins...

[Interficio Nocte]

yh its not compulsory but some people act like it is.Some babies get born by accident (sorry i dont mean to be mean) meaning our existence could be just an accident-made sense?
If god doesn't tell us the answers to the universe,science does

Science probably will eventually but not yet.....

And yes, it made sense.

[Alphonse]

I think he does....................