Heaven and Hell

[Allen Walker]

Do you believe in such things as a Heaven and Hell?

Since I'm a religious person its obvious that I believe in it.

Post what you think about it.

[Alphonse]

I do believe THEY DO EXIST. If I explain it would be to much taiping.

[aldo]

I HOPE THAT WAS INTENTIONAL ROFL.
lol. IDK nor do I really care. WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE LOL. But according to the biblez, I'm going to hell. ^^

[Interficio Nocte]

I believe they exist, don't want to explain, too tired....

[Alphonse]

I get you. Me too.......................

[Lifrasthir]

I do believe in heaven and hell. And it's not my place to explain either. If you have any questions about heaven and hell you should read the books "23 Minutes in Hell", "90 minutes in heaven", and "To hell and back". Those books were written by people who actually went there and came back.

[Interficio Nocte]

Wow, I do not understand how some people cannot believe in heaven and hell. The idea has been around since, well, ever I think. Even the romans and greeks had a heaven and hell....

Side Note - I did not mean to offend anybody if you do not believe in Heaven and Hell.

[Askyria]

Yeah, I believe since I'm religious. That's about all I'll say though xD

[Lucrecia]

I believe in them. I just don't know how to explain it though.

[Misschoco]

i dont really believe in heaven and hell. I just believe that when we die our body or spirit enters another realm which co-exists with the people still living relm i.e people on earth

[Ringlets]

As im not relgious, i believe that your subconscious continues to exist, even if your body has stopped. So you live in your own world after you die, however i think the way your new world is viewed by you depends on how you act, such as guilt may make your new world bad for you. That seems like hell, kinda.

[Misschoco]

As im not relgious, i believe that your subconscious continues to exist, even if your body has stopped. So you live in your own world after you die, however i think the way your new world is viewed by you depends on how you act, such as guilt may make your new world bad for you. That seems like hell, kinda.
woah that was put forward well :rolleyes: my belief would be similar to yours.....i believe your mind or spirit lives on in another world of your own or a different realm from earth which would be a 'spirit realm'

[Kitmitsu]

Try and extend your replied in the Serious Forum Cloud Rulez ;)

I'm one of those people who just go in circles with their beliefs. Our bodies having a soul does appeal to me, mainly because it's hard to imagine how our thoughts and minds work. Then again I'm not religious and I believe in Evolution and scientific way of things too though. Having a soul is pretty essential for Heaven and Hell to work but I still can't tell whether or not if they or something similar exist. Kinda went in a circle again. I'll work it out eventually.

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Dont believe in Heaven or Hell. I dont know what happens when you die, but I dont think you fly up to the clouds and I dont think you burn for the rest of time because you didnt follow the 10 commandments.

[Rikku]

Corrections:
"Wow, I do not understand how some people cannot believe in heaven and hell. The idea has been around since, well, ever I think. Even the romans and greeks had a heaven and hell...."

Pagan hell is different from the Biblical hell. Please understand that. The Biblical hell is also arguably a figurative location.

"If you have any questions about heaven and hell you should read the books "23 Minutes in Hell", "90 minutes in heaven", and "To hell and back". Those books were written by people who actually went there and came back."

It's not entirely credible that somebody has been in heaven or hell. If we're talking about Biblically, then it's stated pretty clearly that only a small group of people in proportion to the rest of the world get to enter heaven, and hell is also arguably figurative. I mean, the word is actually a reference to 'the grave'.

As for what they did see, it is usually referred to as a near death experience, in which one realises that they have had a 'fatal accident' or such and 'has not survived'. There are other characteristics too, but that's the biggest one.

Thing is, there's this drug called ketamine that's occasionally injected into people under certain circumstances that can induce all NDE effects. It can still happen otherwise though; NDE is a state that can be naturally triggered by something like a lack of oxygen to the body and brain.

*

All of that aside, I currently do not believe in the existence of heaven or hell, unless we're taking hell as 'the grave'. In that case, hell technically exists. Why? Because all of your thoughts, feelings, ponderings, etc, are caused by the chemicals in your brain. Once you die, they degrade into the soil with the rest of you. I can't remember the exact scriptures (never can), but even the Jehovah's Witness teaching referred me to how the bible supported this.

[XxFeaRLeSsxX]

I guess I believe in Heaven and Hell, but I don't know them in detail

[Yurian]

We try to study the other worlds when we know almost nothing about the one we live in.

Hell and Heaven exist in that they are created by our imaginations and our aspirations. They do not exist in that we can never reach them. After death, we just decompose like the rest of organic matter does.

That is my truth. :wub:

[Rekhyt]

I agree with Rikku. When you're dead that’s it. Everything that was your mind, your personality and everything else is gone. If there was a Hell then God can sure hold a grudge. One sin and your off to Hell for all eternity. Personally I focus on living rather than dieing.

On the matter of people believing in it since the beginning of time couldn’t it be possible that people didn’t want to face their own mortality and thus invented the after life as an escape.

Also NDEs are pretty much bull in my opinion. People dream, that’s it.

[Allen Walker]

If there was a Hell then God can sure hold a grudge. One sin and your off to Hell for all eternity.

First off, when did God create Hell? And second, Its said in the Bible that God forgives people if they mean it with their heart. Just because you do one sin doesn't automatically mean your going to hell forever. If what you said was true, everybody would be burning.

[Devious]

As im not relgious, i believe that your subconscious continues to exist, even if your body has stopped. So you live in your own world after you die, however i think the way your new world is viewed by you depends on how you act, such as guilt may make your new world bad for you. That seems like hell, kinda.
Bravo. Explains my thoughts exactly. No heaven or hell. When you die, you die. The rest of eternity is spent in darkness. Whether you feel joy or guilt or some such emotion is based on what you felt when you died. So you can murdur and and still feel joy in death if you were a sadist. Basically, the state you are in immediately before death is the same state you are in for the rest of eternity when you die.

[Rekhyt]

First off, when did God create Hell? And second, Its said in the Bible that God forgives people if they mean it with their heart. Just because you do one sin doesn't automatically mean your going to hell forever. If what you said was true, everybody would be burning.

Can you honestly say that there wasn't a single thing which you have done which was a sin that you are not truly sorry for. Surly there is one time when doing something wrong ended up making everything better.

Edit: Oh and I do know the whole Eve creating sin and by extension Hell but God could stop it if he wanted to.

[Allen Walker]

I acknowledge the fact that I've sinned. Everybody in the world as. However the point of my post is that you can be forgiven of your sins and not go to hell.

[Interficio Nocte]

And the fact of somebody sinning and making things better, it might in the short term, but most likely not in the long run.

And some people think that sin is negligible because society has numbed themselves to it. People lie everyday now and back then if you lied once, even if it was a white lie, it was horrible.

[Rikku]

First off, when did God create Hell? And second, Its said in the Bible that God forgives people if they mean it with their heart. Just because you do one sin doesn't automatically mean your going to hell forever. If what you said was true, everybody would be burning.

Hmm.

I think I stated this beforehand, but I'll clarify anyway. Hell is a somewhat innacurate translation of sheol. 'Sheol' means the 'abode of the dead', 'the underworld', 'the common grave of mankind', or 'pit'. In otherwords, it means the grave. Even in modern English translations of the Bible, they've replaced 'hell' with 'grave'. Roman Catholics tend to translate 'sheol' as 'death'.

And, in Ecclesiastes and Job, it is stated that both the righteous and the unrighteous go to Hell.

But, anyway, the eternally damned actually go to Gehenna.

Everybody else just dies and goes to hell and waits there for judgement day. According to Revelations, the extreme sinners are thrown into a lake of fire symbolizing (or it could be literal; not sure) Gehenna where they will suffer for eternity. The rest are ressurected. Afterwards, sheol itself is thrown into Gehenna.

However, you are right to a certain extent that there is supposedly suffering in hell. Suffering for the wicked, anyway. I believe this is portrayed somewhere in Luke... Luke 16:19-31? This somewhat clashes with the sheol portrayed in the Old Testament, but I'm not feeling up to interpreting the bible this early in the morning (yes, it's still early in the morning for me).

All that being said; if you believe in the bible:
It's pretty much unavoidable going to hell, whether you are bad or not.
Nobody goes to hell forever. Not even evil people. Evil people get Gehenna.

That's only the interpretation of the Bible that I derived/was given; I believe I've stated my sources to the best of my ability... without digging out any books, anyway. I seriously still don't believe in any form of heaven/hell, but I felt like those misinterpretations should've been corrected.

[Ultima Star]

I also believe they exist:nod: but can't exlain the whole thing it'd be too much typing^_^ but I do believe in heaven and hell.....sometimes I'm afraid of going to hell even though I'm not bad.....

[Lifrasthir]

All people have sinned and no one deserves Heaven Rikku. And yes I'm a sinner. I admit it because I see myself sin everyday. And Heaven and Hell are for eternity. You don't eventually get out because you've been a good girl or a good guy. You're hopeless in hell. Because there is no light.

Do not be decieved by the idea that Heaven and hell are temporary placements for the after life. You are there forever. Forever never ends.

[Interficio Nocte]

Yeah, technically everyone deserves to burn in Hell for eternity but the whole Jesus sacrificing himself and all that jazz makes a big difference.......:nod:

[Rikku]

All people have sinned and no one deserves Heaven Rikku. And yes I'm a sinner. I admit it because I see myself sin everyday. And Heaven and Hell are for eternity. You don't eventually get out because you've been a good girl or a good guy. You're hopeless in hell. Because there is no light.

Do not be decieved by the idea that Heaven and hell are temporary placements for the after life. You are there forever. Forever never ends.

1) Where did I imply that people deserves heaven in my latest post? Anyway: The book 'Revelations' states the complete opposite, in which it portrays Jesus with a selected number of people to go up wtih heaven to him to eventually rule the new kingdom of God alongside. Or some jazz like that.

2) Where in the Bible does it say that Heaven and Hell are for eternity? The fact that Jesus sacrificed himself (as LA says) changes the concept of Hell from that greatly. Plus, you're contradicting Revelations again.

If Hell was for eternity, then Jesus' death was all for nothing. The point of his death was for a trade-off of the sins that Adam committed -- one perfect human for another perfect human. Thus, this can make the prophecy come true -- the one which states that those who are worthy are ressurected back into a paradise like Earth and Satan and Hell will finally be obliterated (Satan because he would cause a nuisance otherwise, Hell because it is the grave and nobody would die if everybody returned back to being 'perfect humans').

[Lifrasthir]

1) Where did I imply that people deserves heaven in my latest post? Anyway: The book 'Revelations' states the complete opposite, in which it portrays Jesus with a selected number of people to go up wtih heaven to him to eventually rule the new kingdom of God alongside. Or some jazz like that.

2) Where in the Bible does it say that Heaven and Hell are for eternity? The fact that Jesus sacrificed himself (as LA says) changes the concept of Hell from that greatly. Plus, you're contradicting Revelations again.

If Hell was for eternity, then Jesus' death was all for nothing. The point of his death was for a trade-off of the sins that Adam committed -- one perfect human for another perfect human. Thus, this can make the prophecy come true -- the one which states that those who are worthy are ressurected back into a paradise like Earth and Satan and Hell will finally be obliterated (Satan because he would cause a nuisance otherwise, Hell because it is the grave and nobody would die if everybody returned back to being 'perfect humans').

144,000 people aren't the only ones going to Heaven after the Great Tribulation. Those are 144,000 witnesses that will rise up and witness to the world.
After this I looked there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. That's Revelations 7:9. The Bible clearly states that the "saved" ones that will reign at Jesus's side will be numberless.

Where in the Bible does it state that Heaven and Hell are for eternity? I don't know where. I can't suggest any good verses right now. What concepts does the sacrifice change in hell might I ask? And I'm not contradiction Revelations!

Have you read Revelations? Anyways, Jesus died for us so we wouldn't go to hell, yes, but you have to choose salvation. Jesus sacrificed himself so we wouldn't have to but it's your decision whether or not you want to take his offer. Jesus died because of the tempting snake in the Garden of Eden that caused Eve to sin- thus bringing evil into the world and into our hearts. Jesus didn't die for one man, he died for all.

And if you think Satan will just go away and not exist anymore after the judgement of the antichrist then you're wrong. Read Revelations 20:7-10. It states perfectly and clearly Satan's doom.

[Ringlets]

This may sound weird, but South Park actually made some sense about this subject of sinning once making you go to hell.

In the movie, as Kenny dies, he rises to heaven, with a population of 1,000 odd, then he starts falling to hell with a population of billions, which shows that if hell was designed for those who have sinned then it will contain nearly everyone ever to die.

[Rekhyt]

This may sound weird, but South Park actually made some sense about this subject of sinning once making you go to hell.

In the movie, as Kenny dies, he rises to heaven, with a population of 1,000 odd, then he starts falling to hell with a population of billions, which shows that if hell was designed for those who have sinned then it will contain nearly everyone ever to die.

Yea but they also said that only mormons get into Heaven and that Japanese people dont because they don't have souls. Probably shouldn't look towards South Park for your spiritual beliefs.

[Lifrasthir]

Probably, majorly, sure.

[Rikku]

144,000 people aren't the only ones going to Heaven after the Great Tribulation. Those are 144,000 witnesses that will rise up and witness to the world.
After this I looked there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. That's Revelations 7:9. The Bible clearly states that the "saved" ones that will reign at Jesus's side will be numberless.

Where in the Bible does it state that Heaven and Hell are for eternity? I don't know where. I can't suggest any good verses right now. What concepts does the sacrifice change in hell might I ask? And I'm not contradiction Revelations!

Have you read Revelations? Anyways, Jesus died for us so we wouldn't go to hell, yes, but you have to choose salvation. Jesus sacrificed himself so we wouldn't have to but it's your decision whether or not you want to take his offer. Jesus died because of the tempting snake in the Garden of Eden that caused Eve to sin- thus bringing evil into the world and into our hearts. Jesus didn't die for one man, he died for all.

And if you think Satan will just go away and not exist anymore after the judgement of the antichrist then you're wrong. Read Revelations 20:7-10. It states perfectly and clearly Satan's doom.

For the witnesses thing, you basically just agreed with me, so I don't understand why that was necessary. If they will ascend to heaven, that disproves your former statement that 'nobody deserves heaven' (or something to that effect). If they weren't deserving, they wouldn't ascend to heaven in the first place.

You're 'contradiction'/contradicting Revelations because people end up in hell anyway after death, whether or not they are righteous. There they wait for Judgement Day, like I think I have stated at least 5 times by now. But Hell isn't for eternity because Jesus died so that we could have the opportunity to a perfect world and all that jazz -- therefore, Hell is not forever so long as we choose for it not to be. Eh. So, we might end up in Hell, but it's not necessarily forever.

And where the heck did I state that Jesus died for one man? I said Jesus died as a ransom or a trade-off for another perfect man; it's pretty clear that he died for the benefit of humankind already. Of course, that ransom thing is arguable in itself, I suppose, but it's what I got from the few lessons I had and pretty much besides the point anyway.

And I never said that Satan 'will just go away and not exist anymore after the judgement of the antichrist' in the first place. I stated that Satan was doomed. I have no idea how you managed to misinterpret that.

P.S. Yes, I have read Revelations; please do not make assumptions. u_u;;

EDIT: I still don't know where it states that heaven and hell are for eternity. Unless you can find me a scripture, I'm pretty sure that doesn't make much sense unless it's referring to something in specific that I overlooked or forgot. Really, though, even if you find a good scripture, it's still wildly open for interpretation - and I'm not debating on interpretation. I'm trying to explain my reasoning and I'm trying to figure out yours. XD;

[Lifrasthir]

If I misinterpreted your statement in your earlier post about only a select few going to reign alongside Jesus then yes I am agreeing with you but otherwise I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

And I'm not contradicting my earlier statement. They accend to heaven because they have been saved. They have accepted Jesus as their lord and allow him to work in their lives. They're changed, reformed, call it what you want. No one deserves heaven because you cannot get into the Kingdom of Heaven if you have sinned. But Jesus's sacrifice will forgive any sin, if you ask for forgiveness he will give it.

And the "waiting" place until Judgement day is greatly debatable and I will not elaborate on that. But I don't believe we all go to hell after we died to await Judgement.

I don't know where it says but you only have your earthly life to decide whether or not you want salvation or damnation. I can ask my pastor...

I am not assuming that you haven't read Revelations because you are very well informed, maybe information is misinterpreted(by both of us) but still. I was just asking.

Maybe it was the way you worded that section that made me guess the wrong things...hm...It's harder to have conversations like this on forums.

I probably wouldn't be able to find the scripture on my own. I really will need to talk with my pastor about this. Let's just be considerate of eachothers' opinions, statements, etc. xD

[Rikku]

Okay wait --

I get what you're saying now. XD

Alright, that scripture that you earlier mentioned that said that the ones who will reign alongside Jesus will be countless -- well, it's really up to interpretation as well. The saved are impossible to count, perhaps that it what it is implying, but I do not see how it may say or imply that those countless people will actually reign alongside him in heaven. (Actually, I just totally can't remember the context, so it may or may not; that scripture alone doesn't strongly support it)

As far as I have analyzed, the Bible only explicitly states that the aforementioned 144 000 Christians will be resurrected into heaven (Jesus told his faithful followers specifically that he would prepare a place for them in heaven as seen in John 14:2. I think.).

So, really, Jesus had deemed those 144 000 Christians faithful and worthy enough for ascending into heaven; whether or not they are the only ones is certainly debatable, but they are still deemed deserving enough. Otherwise, I doubt that Jesus would make that sort of decision if they weren't. xD

But yes -- they have repented, asked for forgiveness, and undoubtedly sinned beforehand, but in their lifetime, they were still dubbed deserving. So, the point still stands that some people are apparently deserving of ascension into heaven.

Just not a lot. *blinks*

Oh, no, I don't know if I ever said otherwise, but my studies said that you only have your lifetime to decide as well. o.o Sorry if I did mess up and say that somewhere. But I'm pretty sure you only have a lifetime to decide (unless you are classified under the unrighteous, who are apparently those who never heard of Christianity or weren't allowed to study it).

And yeah -- sorry about spazzing about that question. It sounded like an accusation. Whoops.

Huh. Yeah. It is hard to debate over forums and stuff. Like, for example, I totally misread your point about the witnesses. XD

Well, yeah, not everyone goes to hell. Not the 144 000 Christians from what I understand, anyway. Sorry for being a nuisance, but COULD you elaborate? I'm actually quite interested. Does this have to do with your aforementioned point of heaven -- that other people besides the 144 000 (I'm getting tired of typing that number e_e) will ascend?

Also, sorry if I seemed kind of agitated. I was, actually, but not at you. I just need anger management classes. :)

[Lifrasthir]

:wacko: Longest post I've ever seen...

Yeah, I was listening to some tapes (yes I still listen to cassettes) and that verse just kinda popped up. Well sorta. I didn't know how to take it. The interpretation could be, the final count is numberless(obviously) or the saved ones after the rapture are numberless. It's totally up for interpretation but we'll never know until it happens.

Hm...are you meaning after the Great Tribulation? (I remember that verse. Can't remember the reference though. ;))

There's a parable in the Bible that makes me believe you can't have salvation after you've died. Lemme find it. Okay, Luke 16:19-31. I don't wanna type it up...It's just proof for me.

Eh, with debates like this you can't really accuse someone of something. Cause....you can't. >< Oh, bask in the light of that comeback!!!!

It's also hard to have debates on the forums cause you do misinterpret information and you have to type so dang much and you can't ask as many questions as you'd like to. o___o

Don't worry you're not a nuisance Rikku. And yes I believe that after the Great Tribulation, more than 144,000(I'm getting tired of typing that number as well) will accend to heaven to be with Jesus. I'm not exactly sure how I could elaborate though. Like what do you want me to explain?

Eh, it should be me to apologize. I was steamed over some misinterpretations. I need anger management classes as well.

[Rikku]

We should attend them together <3. But, yeah, sorry about the length. I go a little crazy with detail sometimes. x_X

"Hm...are you meaning after the Great Tribulation?" I'm really not sure what that's supposed to be a reference too... and man I have never actually used that term before. XD

Anyway... I think I only assumed that you had the lifetime to decide whether or not to take the chance of salvation and worship God because only two kinds of people had chances at resurrection: people who believed in Him (the righteous) and people who did not have the chance to (the unrighteous). But those verses are useful for future reference, thanks. =D

Anyway... I want you to elaborate because I'm quite confused. First you stated that nobody is exactly worthy of going to heaven with the exception of... that number XD. But now you're stating that not everybody goes into hell, the only other logical place being heaven. So, then, who besides that number would exactly get into heaven? And who would, after judgement, be in heaven and who on paradise Earth?

Also, at the end of the day, what IS hell for you? Is it a literal place of fires or no? And who is it exactly meant for -- really wicked people or just general sinners? I'd appreciate it if you gave the general context of the verse and maybe the book (you don't have to look it up specifically though), since I like analyzing this kind of thing.

(... yeaaah. I'm a nerd.)

You probably stated it before... but... eh... x_X sorry.

[Lifrasthir]

Lol, I go crazy with detail sometimes as well.

Well, the book of Revelations is the foretelling of all the events happening after the Church is taken by God to go be with him in heaven. (Some people believe that the Holy Spirit will be taken as well, which means no salvation. but they why would we have the <number> of people witnessing to the world? So the Holy Spirit isn't gone.) The "Great Tribulation" refers to a 7 year period after the rising Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. So Revelations will take place during those 7 years. Does that clear anything up?

You're welcome. =)

Oh, okay. Yeah I can elaborate. Maybe not in one post but...heheheh.

True, no one is worthy of the glory of Heaven because Heaven is the place for the righteous (as you've states) and only people who have commited no sin can get to Heaven. But, Jesus died on the cross so our sins are forgiven. It's like we never commited the sin. Even though we did. The <insert the number here> are, I think, Judeo-Christians (which are Jewish converts I think). So in reality those people will be no different than me. Only difference is that they will rise after the Rapture (where I hope I'm gone by then, o__o).

So, then, who besides that number would exactly get into heaven? And who would, after judgement, be in heaven and who on paradise Earth?
Who besides that number would get into Heaven? Anyone who believes and confesses that Jesus is lord and they believe in their heart that God raised him from the dead and they live a transformed life (however long they live). That could be anyone. Even after the Great Tribulation. As for Judgement day, I have no clue how that works. The Bible isn't very clear (at least for me).

Hell for me? Hm...that's a good question. I don't normally go every night before I go to sleep, "What is hell?" but that's a very good question. I do believe hell has fire. But I can't really comprehend all that is hell. Demons will have the ability to torture the people in hell without mercy and....it'll be worse than what most people think. And who goes there...I can't specifically answer that question either. I say "sinners" but that means even me. But I think that those who believe the Word of God can ask for forgiveness and be cleasned...I don't know where I'm going. :wacko:

As for a specific Bible verse, well...What do you want to know? If there's a verse that states who goes to hell? Etc.

[Rikku]

Nah, I just wanted some verses to support your opinions (i.e. Hell has fire) so I could look into them myself.

Those are all really interesting opinions, and now what you're saying about the witnesses makes more sense. XD Har, I'm dense. We're both really right in retrospect; they would not be worthy on their own to enter heaven, but they're made to be so by Jesus Christ. I'm pretty sure it depends on the perspective you're going from.

Another question (yay, I'm annoying 8D)... so, err, those who are 'cleansed' after asking for forgiveness -- where would they, according to your beliefs, go? To Paradise Earth or to Heaven? Because the difference in qualifications seem pretty unclear (or maybe you haven't stated them... XD).

[Lifrasthir]

^Wall of TF's and Rikku's text...8D

Ah, those. I bet I could find them...somewhere. But there are also books of people actually going to hell and coming back. I would recomend "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Wiese and "To Hell and Back" by some dude I can't remember. I would be weary about their testimonies but I don't see how anyone could make it up. But that's just me.

Exactly Rikku exactly.

Yay another question (o_O)! Hm...that's a tough question. I really think that when you ask for forgiveness you will be saved and go to Heaven. But the Bible says you must be reborn again. That doesn't mean actual Eartly birth. It means your life must reflect your faith.

From my collections (which could be totally wrong) if you hm...okay, let's say you did drugs and eventually one night accidentally killed someone, say in a car crash. You didn't care about God (even if there was one) and you did whatever felt right. Well, after the car crash, a Christian friend touched your life by being there for you and saying exactly what you needed to hear, not wanted to hear. So you decide to pray the "Sinner's Prayer" as it's called. You are saved. But if you still did everything you did before you were "saved" then you would not have been transformed by salvation.

I'm not exactly sure about all the qualifications but I know that the Bible says "..that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved." But the Bible also says you must be born again. I can't exactly describe a transformed Christian's life because each one is different but I can say I don't think people who prayed the sinner's prayer but are still conformed to the world are truely saved.

I believe people go straight to Heaven or to Hell when they die...But I could be entirely wrong. That, we'll never know until we actually die.

[Rikku]

Yeah, I just don't believe in that kind of X minutes in hell thing. They're probably just hallucinations made by the cut off of oxygen to the brain, I think.

Hm, okay, so then you will be saved if you repent in your sins (or at least ask for forgiveness... I might be misinterpreting, but let's just assume that you have been forgiven), however you do it. But what does this salvation mean? Heaven or Paradise Earth? I'm not sure if you specified. o.o

[Lifrasthir]

Yeah, I just don't believe in that kind of X minutes in hell thing. They're probably just hallucinations made by the cut off of oxygen to the brain, I think.

Hm, okay, so then you will be saved if you repent in your sins (or at least ask for forgiveness... I might be misinterpreting, but let's just assume that you have been forgiven), however you do it. But what does this salvation mean? Heaven or Paradise Earth? I'm not sure if you specified. o.o

Well, the guy went there and then was rescued by Jesus. The guy was a Christian so...don't know how that all works out...

Salvation...I'm not sure if I can describe it. When you pray the Sinner's Prayer, you are considered saved. "Saved from what?" I don't honestly know everything. Hell, the ultimate eternal death, or something else. I can't say "the Devil" since he'll try to tempt the saved ones even more because they are saved.

And I believe Heaven.

[XwingsofaresX]

^Wall of TF's and Rikku's text...8D

Ah, those. I bet I could find them...somewhere. But there are also books of people actually going to hell and coming back. I would recomend "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Wiese and "To Hell and Back" by some dude I can't remember. I would be weary about their testimonies but I don't see how anyone could make it up. But that's just me.

Exactly Rikku exactly.

Yay another question (o_O)! Hm...that's a tough question. I really think that when you ask for forgiveness you will be saved and go to Heaven. But the Bible says you must be reborn again. That doesn't mean actual Eartly birth. It means your life must reflect your faith.

From my collections (which could be totally wrong) if you hm...okay, let's say you did drugs and eventually one night accidentally killed someone, say in a car crash. You didn't care about God (even if there was one) and you did whatever felt right. Well, after the car crash, a Christian friend touched your life by being there for you and saying exactly what you needed to hear, not wanted to hear. So you decide to pray the "Sinner's Prayer" as it's called. You are saved. But if you still did everything you did before you were "saved" then you would not have been transformed by salvation.

I'm not exactly sure about all the qualifications but I know that the Bible says "..that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved." But the Bible also says you must be born again. I can't exactly describe a transformed Christian's life because each one is different but I can say I don't think people who prayed the sinner's prayer but are still conformed to the world are truely saved.

I believe people go straight to Heaven or to Hell when they die...But I could be entirely wrong. That, we'll never know until we actually die.

maybe but theres also purgatory.;)

[Lifrasthir]

maybe but theres also purgatory.;)

Say what?...*looks up purgatory in the dictionary*

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Isnt it waiting to be judged or something? :cunning:

I was thinking about this the other day. Homosexuality is supposedly a sin, so when I die there is no chance im going to heaven? Im just going to burn? :lol:

[Lifrasthir]

Isnt it waiting to be judged or something? :cunning:

I was thinking about this the other day. Homosexuality is supposedly a sin, so when I die there is no chance im going to heaven? Im just going to burn? :lol:

Oh but there is a chance Dante. And you don't have to "burn" and suffer for eternity in hell...You've seen all our discussion (or maybe you skipped it since it was a wall of text). Do you want to know how?

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Okay, sorry for ignoring your discussion but there was so much writing. O_O

[Lifrasthir]

Okay, sorry for ignoring your discussion but there was so much writing. O_O

:lol: Lol, I understand.

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Ok I tried to read but there was so much. :cunning:

I got as far as asking for forgiveness, but does that really apply here ?

[Lifrasthir]

Ok I tried to read but there was so much. :cunning:

I got as far as asking for forgiveness, but does that really apply here ?

You asked yourself if it was a sin. I would count it as one, but I really don't know. And yes, God will forgive you for any sin. It applies for everything. So even if you murdered someone, if you are transformed by the message of God and ask for forgiveness he will forgive you.

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Right, so. I can be "forgiven" but I couldnt be with the guy that I love in Heaven because its a sin?

[Lifrasthir]

Right, so. I can be "forgiven" but I couldnt be with the guy that I love in Heaven because its a sin?

.....To tell you the truth I don't know....If you are saved and go to Heaven then I don't think you'll have any attachment to this guy, because Heaven is a place for the guiltless(you are guiltless if you are saved). But, if you are saved, while you're still on Earth then you would most likely need stop having romantic interests with this guy. God will show you the way.

That's just my thoughts. I could be entirely wrong.

Sidenote: :ohmy: My cat just jacked my chair! :nag:

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

"saved"?

If I can't be with someone I love in Heaven it doesnt sound all that good tbh.

Edit: Jacked your chair? That means something quite different here but im sure its not what you mean. :lmao:

[Lifrasthir]

"saved"?

If I can't be with someone I love in Heaven it doesnt sound all that good tbh.

Edit: Jacked your chair? That means something quite different here but im sure its not what you mean. :lmao:

Yes saved. If you believe Jesus is the true living God and confess it, the Bible says that you will be saved. But it's not just believing in God, it's also living for God.

Oh, but you will be with the person who loves you the most. Jesus. That's why he gave his life for you. And you would understand that you would be standing in the presence of the Ultimate Lover if you were in Heaven or if God opens your eyes to the decietful one. I'm not exactly sure how the Earthly relationships work in Heaven. Like married couples.

Believe me when I say this, there is nothing worse than being fooled by the Devil and his demons. Satan doesn't want you to think that what I'm saying right now is good. He wants you to shrug me off and say I'm delusional. He is sick, twisted, and he hates me because I love the Lord.

Edit: I guess I should say "stole". :D

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Oh, but you will be with the person who loves you the most. Jesus.

But I dont want to be with Jesus. :lol: I want to be with my boyfriend. I don't know if you've ever been in love before but its not something you would want to just let go of because "its wrong". I spose you wouldnt be able to related but still..


Believe me when I say this, there is nothing worse than being fooled by the Devil and his demons. Satan doesn't want you to think that what I'm saying right now is good. He wants you to shrug me off and say I'm delusional. He is sick, twisted, and he hates me because I love the Lord.

Not having a go at you, but are you implying that be being in love with another guy is the Devil "fooling" me?

[Rikku]

Yeah, she is, because that's essentially what it's supposed to be according to the bible. I think.

According to my studies, you'd not only have to ask for forgiveness sincerely, but give up the lifestyle of a homosexual person. u_u It's kind of depressing when I think about it, but it's just like every other alleged sin: you do it, you ask for forgiveness, and you SHOULD stop doing it since you've realized it's wrong.

[Lifrasthir]

But I dont want to be with Jesus. :lol: I want to be with my boyfriend. I don't know if you've ever been in love before but its not something you would want to just let go of because "its wrong". I spose you wouldnt be able to related but still..

Now it's mine turn to say this, you're right. I don't know what it feels like to be Earthly in love. But I understand it's difficult to give up because it's wrong. There are people all around in the exact same situation. I not being one couldn't say anything.

Not having a go at you, but are you implying that be being in love with another guy is the Devil "fooling" me?

Yeah, she is, because that's essentially what it's supposed to be according to the bible. I think.

Hm..I don't exactly think "fooling" but yeah, basically what you said. I'm sorry for saying it but it's true...

According to my studies, you'd not only have to ask for forgiveness sincerely, but give up the lifestyle of a homosexual person. u_u It's kind of depressing when I think about it, but it's just like every other alleged sin: you do it, you ask for forgiveness, and you SHOULD stop doing it since you've realized it's wrong.

You're correct Rikku. It sounds so..demanding and "horrible" but if you follow a transformed life you'll see it's alot more rewarding.

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

Thought so. Sounds great. :lol:

You're correct Rikku. It sounds so..demanding and "horrible" but if you follow a transformed life you'll see it's alot more rewarding.

Like how?

[Lifrasthir]

Thought so. Sounds great. :lol:

What sounds great? :blink:

Like how?

Well, to use me as an example, I'm alot happier than alot of people. They may put on a good show but deep down there's something missing that they're desperate to fill. And they'll ruin their lives to fill it. And I'm also not afraid to die. You may say you aren't either but...I've seen others put on false bravado. You may seriously not be afraid, and that's cool. But I know I'm going to Heaven. 100% sure.

[TEA TOWEL HOLDER]

What sounds great? :blink:



Sarcasm. :rolleyes:

Well, to use me as an example, I'm alot happier than alot of people. They may put on a good show but deep down there's something missing that they're desperate to fill. And they'll ruin their lives to fill it. And I'm also not afraid to die. You may say you aren't either but...I've seen others put on false bravado. You may seriously not be afraid, and that's cool. But I know I'm going to Heaven. 100% sure.

What do you mean deep down there's something missing that they're desperate to fill? O_o

Im not afraid to die, but I dont want to die.... im not suicidal XD

[Lifrasthir]

Sarcasm. :rolleyes:

What do you mean deep down there's something missing that they're desperate to fill? O_o

Im not afraid to die, but I dont want to die.... im not suicidal XD

People have all kinds of alternatives to "fill the hole". When I say that, I mean they try to "do what feels good". They try to make themselves feel happy. But that happiness only lasts for a certain ammount of time. And not for eternity.

And I'm sure you're not suicidal. I din't mean it like that.

[Rikku]

It's on the presumptuous side to assume that there's a hole within everybody which they are desperate to fill. I'm pretty satisfied with my life, thanks. o_O

[Lifrasthir]

I only say what I know. And I'm not speaking for everyone anyways. I do know alot of pretty content people.

[Halfmetal]

I'm a Muslim, so yeah I would ahve to go with yeah.

[Demon Eyes]

And remember Santa knows whether you've been naughty or nice. The only difference between Santa and God is kids stop believing in him at an earlier age!:lol: Here's my reasoning. You are told that if your naughty you won't receive presents. But most of your parents were too soft to not give you presents. So subconsciously you realized the system was flawed. But as for the God theory, the only way you will receive judgment and see if it's real, is after you've died. Santa is just a watered down version of God!

[Cloud Strife]

I can't say that Heaven and Hell exists... And I can't say that I believe in them. But since I am religious I do believe in God and probably heaven. Don't know about Hell though.

[Demon Eyes]

I can't say that Heaven and Hell exists... And I can't say that I believe in them. But since I am religious I do believe in God and probably heaven. Don't know about Hell though.

How can there be a heaven without a hell? You can't have good without bad. The only way this would work, is if we are in hell now.

[Cloud Strife]

You mean you an't have Evil without Good? Either way is the same way. I gues it is like a Hero ad Villain thing. When there is Good there is Evil and when there is Evil there is Good.