To non-God believers....

[Allen Walker]

What do you think of life if you dont think there is a God?

[Kitmitsu]

I think its great I dont have to waste my life worshipping him.

But seriously, what do you mean? Do you think because we dont believe in god, we dont believe life is as special?

[Cathryn]

I don't understand it either. >_<

But i don't really think nothing of life, just how i live it is all that i care about.

[Pulse]

So, all you're saying is that god is the only thing you're life is about. Understandably I am a christian, yet I don't beleive that we as christian should spend our entire lives worshipping god, and if god didn't want us to sin, then he would not have given us the ability of free will. I do beleive there is a god, I do not beleive that the bible is the be all and end all of christianity and that most of the bible is exaggerated stories from thousands of years ago passed down through word of mouth and bound together to make a book. That is my oppinion on it.

Josh x

[Allen Walker]

What I mean is, what do you expect in life? Good, bad?

[Interficio Nocte]

@ Kit: Worship is part of Religion itself and to be a Christian you do not have to be religious, as weird as that sounds. Believing in god is based on faith, religion is using the faith to improve it. Can't really explain it that well......>_<

[Fenristh]

What I mean is, what do you expect in life? Good, bad?
Phrase your question better, it doesn't make sense. Are you asking if we think that life will be shit because we don't believe in god? -__-

[Lifrasthir]

I agree with Pulse about worship. You don't have to worship God 24/7. I believe that you can sing songs and stuff to God but you also worship him by the way you live your life.

@ Kit: Worship is part of Religion itself and to be a Christian you do not have to be religious, as weird as that sounds. Believing in god is based on faith, religion is using the faith to improve it. Can't really explain it that well......>_<

Christianity is not religion, it's relationship. Religion is our way of getting to a god. (When I say "our," I mean humans.)

[Allen Walker]

Phrase your question better, it doesn't make sense. Are you asking if we think that life will be shit because we don't believe in god? -__-

Its hard to explain. D;

[Interficio Nocte]

Christianity is not religion, it's relationship. Religion is our way of getting to a god. (When I say "our," I mean humans.)

I did not say Christianity is a religion, did I?:blink:

I think that Religion is the way for us to express our belief, not getting to a God. That can be done by faith.

[Lifrasthir]

I did not say Christianity is a religion, did I?:blink:

I think that Religion is the way for us to express our belief, not getting to a God. That can be done by faith.

No you didn't. I was just saying...

[Yurian]

Talking in terms of the afterlife, I know that when a human dies, like the rest of matter, he/she breaks down into other matter for other usages. Basically, humans rot after they die.

[Demon Eyes]

What do you think of life if you dont think there is a God?


What do you think of life, since you believe in a God? I guess your the type of person who wouldn't be able to make it through life day in and day out; knowing it was all for nothing, right? Some may argue that was the basis on the creation of religion.

[Interficio Nocte]

knowing it was all for nothing, right?

Well, if you do not believe in God, the purpose of your life would be what you make it out to be, I would think.

This might turn into another really deep philisophical thread where the posts are entire pages.

[Demon Eyes]

Well, if you do not believe in God, the purpose of your life would be what you make it out to be, I would think.



Ya I agree. But there are people who can't comprehend not existing, when I was younger I used to have trouble thinking about this. Now I've just learned to accept it.

[Rophage]

Well, if you believe in God I have heard a lot of religious people say that they live a good life because they want a good afterlife or whatever right? Well, for atheists or at least those I have talked to and myself, we live a good life BECAUSE we do not believe in an after life. If there is no life after death we must make the most of the time we have.

[Ringlets]

I enjoy being atheist because i dont like the idea of possibly pledging my life to someone who hasnt been proven or unproven. Like Pat said, i (try to) make the most out of the life i have now, whereas some extreme believers of a deity may give their life away, only to find nothing when the die. The obvious come back is, well if you dont spend your life looking for an afterlife, then you wont be rewarded with one. My comeback would be, well the afterlife might be a test for an after-afterlife, which could easily create a cyclic pointlessness. My second comeback would be "Get off my doorstep you conversia-tards"

(Note: That wasnt me calling all Christians conversia-tards, it was me making reference to the Jehovas Witnesses that came to my door, telling me i was immoral for being atheist)

[Misschoco]

it was me making reference to the Jehovas Witnesses that came to my door, telling me i was immoral for being atheist)
i enjoy the same pleasure of their pestering ;)


i'v been told a couple of times by many 'God-believers' that i wont be able to enjoy the paradise that god has in store for me after i die as i dont believe in him-this happens after i tell them im atheist

like ringlets said im not going to waste my life worshiping or looking up to someone (God) who hasnt in the slightest 0.001% been proven to exist.....im sorry but any cruel brain box could have made up the bible or Qu-ran thinking it'd be funny for people to worship 'the word of god' when the whole time it was fake.

im sorry if i did offend anyone...which is probably unlikely :rolleyes:

[Rophage]

im sorry but any cruel brain box could have made up the bible or Qu-ran

Exactly, In my opinion ye olde humans needed a reason for living or else they would not be able to go on. The kings and queens of England certainly need these beliefs because without them they had no reason for the throne (it was divine choice or whatever) so I believe that it was either a clever leader or merely rumour spread by the masses and by 'prophets'.

Of course this means that to me that Jesus was probably just very intelligent and/or really believed what he was saying because of his upbringing. I believe my Religion + Philos. teacher showed us a clip about how around the time of Jesus' birth all the things written in the Bible could be explained by pure coincidence. If you do not believe that the coinicidence could have occured because it is coincindental than that is just bull. The point of coincidence is that it could have happened only it is not likely, hence it only happening once in recorded human history.

[Ringlets]

im sorry but any cruel brain box could have made up the bible or Qu-ran thinking it'd be funny for people to worship 'the word of god' when the whole time it was fake.

Like Pat, just what i think, however it could be more likely that someone made it up, knowing they could control the masses at the thought that someone was judging them on their savage acts. Of course there was a person named Jesus who millions of people now worship, but whether or not he was the son of a divine being is a different matter. He could simply be someone who was let in on the "control scam" and (as the Family Guy movie put brilliantly) used subtle mind tricks to "scam them" moar.

Again, im not offending anyone here purposefully, these are just my opinions and reasons towards not supporting god. Other reasons include "deh well if God exists why does he allow good people to die" and "surely God would've smote the gays"

[Halfmetal]

I would have thought that Pascals Wager would have come in by now but thankfully not.

[Interficio Nocte]

I would have thought that Pascals Wager would have come in by now but thankfully not.

Just looked that up.:P

I am suprised no one has used that yet either, that is, if anyone actually knows what it is.

If you want to now what it is here is a link:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal)

[Halfmetal]

I don't think it works. But I do think it's a good defence for theism. Does the athiest have the heart to try and screw the thiest out of a good deal when the athiest could be wrong?

[Demon Eyes]

I don't think it works. But I do think it's a good defence for theism. Does the athiest have the heart to try and screw the thiest out of a good deal when the athiest could be wrong?


You make it sounds like it's athiest vs theist's. To me it's just a personal battle. As for the wager, sure I'd like to believe that there is a magnificent super being who will provide life after death. But there is a difference between saying you believe, and actually believing, therefore it would be pointless to try and fool myself.

[Halfmetal]

I'm sorry if I did. Yes, I agree, it is a personal battle.

Regarding the the wager, I think you've misunderstood. They're actually asking you to actually believe. Now whether that's psychologically possible is the main discussion, me thinks.

[Demon Eyes]

Well thats sort of the point of agnostic/athiest. How can we actually believe? You might as well tell us to worship the easter bunny.

[Halfmetal]

Perhaps, agnostics and athiests are reluctant to believe? That would make sense. Agnostics because there's insufficient evidence and athiests becuase they're just too darn sceptic.

[Demon Eyes]

And maybe the theists are just too gullible? Or scared.

[Halfmetal]

Yes, thanks for that <_<. That's not the point the though.

[Demon Eyes]

Well what point are you tryin to make by dissing opinions different than yours?

[Halfmetal]

W.T.F? I wasn't dissing opinions. I was presenting different opinions. The discussion is that whether that's psychologically possible to will to believe. I'm trying to present the other opinion so it doesn't seem so one sided.

If you didn't take the hint then let me spell it out for you.
I AGREE WITH YOU! I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

[Rophage]

Hmm...I don't believ atheists are reluctant to believe...but that would be because I am one. In my opinion that argument could go either way. As I said earlier, I believe that religions were created because theists were reluctant to believe that their lives could just come to an end.

So I believe that it is the theists who are reluctant to believe. Obviously you can't just change one's beliefs, despite how common conversion was back in ye olde days that was merely a change faiths or die sort of thing.

[Halfmetal]

Who knows? Just look at glory supporters. or better yet, look at us England supporters. Not had the cup since 66 and yet we still believe. There's gotta be some will in that.

Funny though. England as a whole seem to have more faith in our football squad than in God. Lol.

[Ringlets]

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/e7/Atheist.jpg

Theres a totally decent form of atheist description.

To pat and mat, can you believe daffern in RP?

"Oh well if you are atheist make a prayer to whatever god you believe in"?!

[Demon Eyes]

And believers I guess 'know' they have it figured out?.. ya... right. Here is my opinion on this: Not believing in a God is just as foolish as believing in one.

[Ringlets]

Matrix quotes are awesome, ja?

"Temporary constructs of a feeble human intellect trying desperately to justify an existence that is without meaning or purpose!"

We no longer worship Mayan or Aztec or Egyptian Gods, so surely that means that as society evolves, maybe the themes of Christianity and Islam will fade?

[Lifrasthir]

And believers I guess 'know' they have it figured out?.. ya... right. Here is my opinion on this: Not believing in a God is just as foolish as believing in one.

Yup we have "figured it out." Belief takes a certain amount of faith.

We no longer worship Mayan or Aztec or Egyptian Gods, so surely that means that as society evolves, maybe the themes of Christianity and Islam will fade?

Well, since not all of us worshiped Mayan or Aztec or Egyptian Gods, and not everyone worships God or Allah, then Christianity and Islam will not fade.

[Sidderz]

I think life is even more of an adventure. Filled with more than what religions seem to show as just "worship" and "breeding". You must live life to the fullest and take every day as it comes as in the end; when you're gone, you're gone.

My outlook - kinda.

[Halfmetal]

Life is shit, and then you die. That seems to be most Athiests motto. Lol.


I believe that it's perfectly rational not to believe in God but always being rational isn't always the right thing. There are many things that seem to be a strange mix of irrationality and rationality, like love, morality and faith (not blind faith, becuase that's entirely irrational).

[Yurian]

I believe that the purpose of our collective existence is to continue the existence of humanity. Like every other organism, we're striving to continue our existence as long as possible; it's a natural instinct.

Basing our individual purpose - my life, your life, his life, her life - on this premise makes it seem as if we're very trivial. That's how I used to think.

Now, I've held it upon myself to just be happy with my existence. I live to grow with others; I want to impress my Self upon others: make them a part of me, and make me a part of them. As a person, not an Athiest as this doesn't directly involve religion, that is my motto.

EDIT: To make it clear, I don't abide by this motto all the time lol. It's way out of my comfort zone to try and influence everyone I meet.

[Rophage]

Life is shit, and then you die. That seems to be most Athiests motto. Lol.

I cannot believe you think that, I seriously hope you are kidding because if not I would be seriously offended. Atheists do not think this way.

a) Most atheists don't believe 'life is shit' we believe that life is what you make it, and we try to make it as best as possible BECAUSE we believe that there is nothing after death.

b) Atheists aren't all the same in the same way that theists aren't all the same. You wouldn't class christians and muslims as the same thing would you? I know atheists who belive in a single universe, I personally believe the oscillating universe theory, we don't have the same beliefs.

c) Ringlets, Daffern is a fucking nut.

[Halfmetal]

Whoa there, Rophage. I'm sorry if I offended you, I only said that seems to be most athiests motto coz all my athiestic friends seem to think that. Besides, I said most not all. If it's not even most then then well, I said that out of ignorance rather than anything else.

[Thefutureisnow]

The five world religions cant find any common ground in anything, now i'm a sceptic catholic, so i might as well be an athiest.
That said now i'll answer your question, what do i believe in if i don't believe in god?
I believe that lifes existance is circumstantial, I also believe that religion is a means to justify an end, take virtually any conflict going on in the world today, chances are this conflict has by religious differences come about or religion has been a factor in the escalation of violence.
The confict in Northern Ireland, terrorist attacks, WWII, the crusades and many many others are examples of this.

William Shakespeare i feel was right on the money with my sig

[IBeatSephiroth]

Apparently I'm christian, but I've never picked up a bible and actually read it. I don't believe in God because, really there's nothing to believe in. Actually, I've never been to church once in my life, aside from being christened. I believe in fate, destiny, luck and stuff, though.
Now, I hope I don't insult you religious people out there, because I don't want to, but all those bible stories seem exceedingly far-fetched to be believable. For example: the Garden of Eden--apparently Eve was made from Adam, and then they had kids, even though they're essentially brother & sister...
Although the story about Noah's Ark does seem to have a grain of truth in it.
What if the bible was a book written by a skilled author? Some people worship books like the Harry Potter series almost as much, if not more then the bible.

I don't understand how I'm not religious. My great-grandma (who I've never met-died 20 years before I was born) apparently would read her 1800's bible every day for her whole life. (She died at age 98 or so)
In conclusion, I think that there is no Heaven or Hell. When most people die, their spirits linger here for what could be eternity. I'm ending this here because I could rant all day, given the chance.

[Devious]

Might sound cliche, but your life's what you make it. Say like 10% of how your life goes you can't control. Like, whether you're a guy or a girl, or maybe if you have some kind of genetic disease. The other 90% is what you make it. We make our life as good as we possibly can, since we believe there is nothing after death, and we'll only ever get one chance.

@Half-metal: What you said seems much more likely for Christians than Atheists. Like I said, Atheists enjoy life to it's fullest extent, as they believe they won't ever get to again. Christians on the other hand, are much more prone to bsing their way through life hoping God will come and enlighten them.

[Halfmetal]

@Half-metal: What you said seems much more likely for Christians than Atheists. Like I said, Atheists enjoy life to it's fullest extent, as they believe they won't ever get to again. Christians on the other hand, are much more prone to bsing their way through life hoping God will come and enlighten them.


I think both of us have been a bit stereotypical. I don't think all christians are like that, and I don't think all athiests are like that either. I think it just differs among people to people. The religious can be either cynical or happy, and the same goes for athiest. It's their reasoning to why, that differs, as well.

[aleksunder]

Might sound cliche, but your life's what you make it. Say like 10% of how your life goes you can't control. Like, whether you're a guy or a girl, or maybe if you have some kind of genetic disease. The other 90% is what you make it. We make our life as good as we possibly can, since we believe there is nothing after death, and we'll only ever get one chance.

@Half-metal: What you said seems much more likely for Christians than Atheists. Like I said, Atheists enjoy life to it's fullest extent, as they believe they won't ever get to again. Christians on the other hand, are much more prone to bsing their way through life hoping God will come and enlighten them.

I agree with your statements whole-heartedly.
We have to work to make our lives better, and make the best of what we've been handed, even if it's not much. I think that all people should believe this and actively practice it, instead of leaning on some sort of intangible hope that some ethereal parent will come and scare the monsters away with a flashlight.

[Halfmetal]

I agree with your statements whole-heartedly.
We have to work to make our lives better, and make the best of what we've been handed, even if it's not much. I think that all people should believe this and actively practice it, instead of leaning on some sort of intangible hope that some ethereal parent will come and scare the monsters away with a flashlight.

I hope you aren't implying that all religious people think that way.

[Nagase]

Religon = Is a way to make people less scared of death. It's just some kind of little hope that people hang onto. IMO. Rants please.

Atheism = Acceptance and realism that life is all there is.

If the bible said you live and you die, thats it, there wouldn't be a religon nowadays. It's only because it says there's a chance you could go to a better place that people believe. If we were immortal, there would be no need to worship a God. And I also think it's funny how the only time God is supposed to come into action is when your dead, very convenient. Maybe if God finds ways of stopping 12 year olds getting cancer and sends us the recipe, I might thank him, but for now, im thianking the scientists trying to heal people.

[Nagase]

Ever had that feeling of 'I wish that could happen to me.'? Its because youre not with Christ.

Your God has NEVER in my entire life helped me through, or with anything. I have made up my own mind to be who I want, I have thought my own dreams, my own ambitions and all of this without a god, so fuck you kira.

[Fenristh]

You're here trying to make everyone respect your life style, a religious one, when you can even respect others for being gay.

I repost my earlier comment and demand a response. :cookie:

[Lifrasthir]

Your God has NEVER in my entire life helped me through, or with anything. I have made up my own mind to be who I want, I have thought my own dreams, my own ambitions and all of this without a god, so fuck you kira.

Has He? How could you know if you don't believe in Him?

[Nagase]

Because everything I have done, I did out of my own will, and God can't change free will.

[Aimen]

I love the smell of beaten religous people in mornings....smells like....victory.

LOLLLLL

And now you can, Kira. :cunning: You're getting overly defensive about this, when other people are simply stating their views. If you can't take critism, maybe you shouldn't post at all? :cunning:

I thought one of the main Christian beliefs was acceptance and understanding, maybe I was wrong? Maybe I should go watch that Tyra Banks episode again. :cunning:

[Allen Walker]

Who are you supposed to be?

[Lifrasthir]

Because everything I have done, I did out of my own will, and God can't change free will.

Of course God doesn't change free will. Other wise we wouldn't have free will in the first place.

Oh, he thinks im posting my opinion directly too him....how sad....

I've been beaten? How so?

[Nagase]

Who are you supposed to be?
I can tell his religon teaches him manners ```

[Aimen]

Who are you supposed to be?

onoe you have a higher post count?! SHIT SORRY, I FORGOT TO BOW BEFORE YOU. :cunning:

Let's start a Kira religion.

Commandment no. 1: Don't disagree, ever. Punishment is a bible slap to the face.

Sorry, am I being harsh? :cunning:

[Jive Turkey]

@Kira: She's Aimen
:cookie:

Anyways, I just found many faults in the Catholic religion as I was forced to be one so I left the church, especially after coming out of the closet, it seems there is very little acceptance in those who aren't want God wants them to be.....which is being different...

[Nagase]

Because everything I have done, I did out of my own will, and God can't change free will.
Of course God doesn't change free will. Other wise we wouldn't have free will in the first place.I'm saying God hasn't helped me! How could he have if I make my own free willed choices? There is nothing he CAN do. Name something he might have possibly done for me.

Oh, he thinks im posting my opinion directly too him....how sad....

I've been beaten? How so?Not you lifra, kira....

[Aimen]

I SAY:

Buddhism for the win :cunning:

[Jive Turkey]

I say Hail Satan. FTW.
j/k

I'm a nothing

[Allen Walker]

onoe you have a higher post count?! SHIT SORRY, I FORGOT TO BOW BEFORE YOU. :cunning:

Let's start a Kira religion.

Commandment no. 1: Don't disagree, ever. Punishment is a bible slap to the face.

Sorry, am I being harsh? :cunning:

I'm not offended in the least. I just didn't like your sudden entrance :cookie:

[Nagase]

I'm not offended in the least. I just didn't like your sudden entrance

She can't exactly knock first can she, it's a forum. What's she supposed to do?

[Aimen]

I'm not offended in the least. I just didn't like your sudden entrance :cookie:

Sarcasm much? :cunning: No. 1 on your to-do list: Aquire sense of humour, for the sake of everyone on the forum.

And I like sudden entrances. :cunning:

[Lifrasthir]

I'm saying God hasn't helped me? How could he have if I make my own free willed choices? There is nothing he CAN do. Name something he might have possibly done for me.

Well that's a very difficult question to answer since I know absolutely nothing about you besides you don't believe in God and you're friends with Kit, Dante, Aimen, Rehykt, and possibly more people on these forums.

[Jive Turkey]

*suddenly enters*

I have a question, and this is not a smart ass one either: Why is God portrayed as a big guy with a white beard and wears a white robe?? Like in the cartoons?

[Nagase]

Well that's a very difficult question to answer since I know absolutely nothing about you besides you don't believe in God and you're friends with Kit, Dante, Aimen, Rehykt, and possibly more people on these forums.

Well, I know me, and everything I have done, has been done by myself, or with the help of my friends. Ok, lets say, what's he done for you, and ill say whther the ones I have done too, were done by me or God.

[Aimen]

*suddenly enters*

I have a question, and this is not a smart ass one either: Why is God portrayed as a big guy with a white beard and wears a white robe?? Like in the cartoons?

I'm guessing that the white is to to with light and holyness etc. and being in robes and stuff meaning that he's not rich or extremely well dressed. :cunning: Also the age thing is probably associated with wisdom and that sort of thing. That's always the impression I've gotten anyway. :cunning:

[Jive Turkey]

Okay so if something bad happens to me like I almost die but I don't, is that God's way of saying I'm here and I saved you now worship me...one of the commandments says we shouldn't worship any other God besides him...isn't that a bit vain??

Thank you for answering my question....well shedding light on it at least
:cookie:

[Lifrasthir]

Well, I know me, and everything I have done, has been done by myself, or with the help of my friends. Ok, lets say, what's he done for you, and ill say whther the ones I have done too, were done by me or God.

Okay...I'm confused by this...Do you want me to tell you something that's happened in my life that I say God has done for me? Sorry, I guess I'm more slow than I thought. -__-

*suddenly enters*

I have a question, and this is not a smart ass one either: Why is God portrayed as a big guy with a white beard and wears a white robe?? Like in the cartoons?

Honestly I have no idea...

[Aimen]

Okay so if something bad happens to me like I almost die but I don't, is that God's way of saying I'm here and I saved you now worship me...one of the commandments says we shouldn't worship any other God besides him...isn't that a bit vain??


He's trying to get you into his molestation cloud. :cunning:

[Nagase]

Okay...I'm confused by this...Do you want me to tell you something that's happened in my life that I say God has done for me? Sorry, I guess I'm more slow than I thought. -__-

Kind of. I'm saying, tell me some things that God effected in your life.

[Nagase]

He's trying to get you into his molestation cloudLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLL. <333333

omfg double post :cookie:

[Jive Turkey]

lol @ Aimen

I mean God didn't come up to me one day after something bad happened to me and say "I saved you..." I just don;t really know what to think.....

[Lifrasthir]

Okay so if something bad happens to me like I almost die but I don't, is that God's way of saying I'm here and I saved you now worship me...one of the commandments says we shouldn't worship any other God besides him...isn't that a bit vain??

Well, He's telling you that He's looking out for you. God tells people that He is always there in different ways. Some could experience an almost death experience to get them to acknowledge that God's hand is on their shoulder. Of course this could be debated a lot seeing as though people do die tragically. The Bible states many times that God is a jealous God. If you want I'll give you some verses.

[Nagase]

Well, He's telling you that He's looking out for you. God tells people that He is always there in different ways. Some could experience an almost death experience to get them to acknowledge that God's hand is on their shoulder. Of course this could be debated a lot seeing as though people do die tragically. The Bible states many times that God is a jealous God. If you want I'll give you some verses.

In my opinion. it's the opposite, near death, we're on our own, the only thing we have is our own bodies strength and the doctors,surgeons and nurses who will try and help you.

Well, He's telling you that He's looking out for you.

I disagree again, for instance, and not one im proud of, I've been in a fair few fights, concerning chavs, and the only thing looking out for you in positions like that are your friends and/or your own strength. No one looks out for you apart from mortal people, like friends and family.

[Aimen]

Well, He's telling you that He's looking out for you. God tells people that He is always there in different ways. Some could experience an almost death experience to get them to acknowledge that God's hand is on their shoulder. Of course this could be debated a lot seeing as though people do die tragically. The Bible states many times that God is a jealous God. If you want I'll give you some verses.

I'm guessing that you think God is a man from what you've said. :cunning: I just wanted to know if this was unintentional or not, and if not why do you think God is a man instead of a woman or just a genderless being? :cunning:

[Jive Turkey]

I would think God to be a woman if any gender because women give life right?? Wouldn't that be appropriate??

[Aimen]

I would think God to be a woman if any gender because women give life right?? Wouldn't that be appropriate??

Yeah I think that sounds more plausible really, seeing as women are mothers etc. etc. and naturally have a more instictive feeling to look after and care for people. :cunning:

[Nagase]

Tbh, when I think of God as a whole, I don't really see him/her as a human, although we were suppoedly created in his image.

[Aimen]

Tbh, when I think of God as a whole, I don't really see him/her as a human, although we were suppoedly created in his image.

Yeah I never really think of a human form as such, although I do think a womanly figure would seem more 'realistic' as such.

[Jive Turkey]

Yeah I meant to say IF he/she/it has a gender....

Women do have more of the emotional construct to deal with others rather then alot of men (no offense guys)

[Nagase]

Yeah I meant to say IF he/she/it has a gender....

Women do have more of the emotional construct to deal with others rather then alot of men (no offense guys)

True but how often do you see women using fear to rule their people, and how often do you see women using wrath to punish them?

[Jive Turkey]

@Nagase: Very true, maybe God is a hermaphrodite

I don't think there is such a thing as the right God...because those who believe in a certain God thing there's IS the right one and only God/ the right God...

[aldo]

I just don't understand why its followers produce so much hatred towards those who question.

Really, I enjoy the depiction of this God, but its followers , it's christians, catholics, etc. are overall displeasing. :cunning:

[Nagase]

its followers , it's christians, catholics, etc. are overall displeasing

ROFL

I just walked into the lounge, mum was watching footloose, the dance movie with Kevin Bacon. Its about this this village preacher that banned dancing due to the religon. I mean....cmon...dancing. XDDD

[Rophage]

DANCING IS WRONG IN THE EYES OF THE ALMIGHTY!

There is nothing different about theists and atheists, the only difference is between theism and atheism. There will always be cocks on both sides and there will always be well educated people on both sides, there will also always be those, both theists and atheists, who belong to each group respectively due to blind faith.

[S-r-ex]

As far as I see, religion is OK as log as it doesn't become an obsession. Suicide bombing is from our point of view ridiculous! I mean, blow yourself up along with some innocent and you go to paradise. I recall killing was a major sin. For christ's sake, why can't they just do seppuku!?

[Ringlets]

Life without believing in God is kickass. When i was young, i had to go to a Sunday School (because my nan was like the one responsible for it) and it made me realize that religion takes away free will in some, if not many cases. I love how i can make my own good or bastard-like decisions and not become bat shit scared because i won't get to go to a heaven. Even if i know that what i did will compose bad repurcussions, i'll still enjoy the fact that the event is what I made it, not some 2000 year old book.

[Halfmetal]

Whoa. Looks like I missed a rare huge event here. Damn, a chance to prove my awesomeness and I miss it.

@ Ringlets - Dangerous thinking there, Ringlets. That kind of logic could justify acts of the worse kind just becuase they enjoy the freedom of it.


There is nothing different about theists and atheists, the only difference is between theism and atheism. There will always be cocks on both sides and there will always be well educated people on both sides, there will also always be those, both theists and atheists, who belong to each group respectively due to blind faith.

DAMN RIGHT, BROTHER!

[Ringlets]

@ Ringlets - Dangerous thinking there, Ringlets. That kind of logic could justify acts of the worse kind just becuase they enjoy the freedom of it.


What im saying is that I enjoy not being religious because of the freedom it grants me. Others like it because it allows them to forge their own reasons for the unexplainable, or because they'd prefer not to conflict the science they find with the religion they follow. Find me a murder or mass suicide by atheists that was justified through the "i wont go to hell for it" arguement and a new hampshire automotive contraption is yours.

What i originally meant was that if i happen to slip out something that causes something massive to happen, i won't be busted by thinking it was an act of God, or worse yet, my fault. The fact that i call a teacher a giant hunk of shit then get detained for it is just the way shit happens.

[Nagase]

Considering God sends US to hell for murder, he sure does alot of murdering himself, such as natural disasters. Opinions please?

[S-r-ex]

@Nagase: Word!

Now, lets get rid of him with the amazing "omnipotence paradox":
God as we know him is almighty, omnipotent. He created Adam, and made him a chick out of one of his ribs (quite a feat!) along with all the animals (and apples!). Also, he made a virgin (girl who's never had a god fuck) have a baby. However, could almighty god create a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it? Either, he could create a rock he can't lift or he cannot create a rock he cannot lift. If he can create it but not lift it, he's not almighty. If he cannot make such a rock, he's still not almighty. This concludes that omnipotence is impossible, and since God is omnipotent, he can't possibly exist when just omnipotence is...impossible!


And for Douglas Adams' version with the "Babel fish" (stick it in your ear and it translates anything spoken):

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument isn't worth a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Culluphid from making a fortune with his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God."

[aldo]

DANCING IS WRONG IN THE EYES OF THE ALMIGHTY!

There is nothing different about theists and atheists, the only difference is between theism and atheism. There will always be cocks on both sides and there will always be well educated people on both sides, there will also always be those, both theists and atheists, who belong to each group respectively due to blind faith.

Exactly, I most certainly am not trying to glorify atheists. :aldo: I'm just speaking in religion overall.

[Nagase]

Well said S-r-e-x!

The entire story concerning God has so many contradictions and parts that don't make sense, that the whole thing becomes more of a joke, in this case people just answer with

"It's not about sense, its about faith".

Alot of people have died following that answer, thinking God will protect them. How many more will die until people will see sense?

-----

A few hundred years ago, you'd find it a difficulty to find an atheist at all! Nowadays there are millions. In the next few hundred years, people might get the idea.

-----

I also find it....disturbing...when people say in maybe a hundred years or so, when space living might be possible, that we will never leave this planet if the apocalypse comes around, due to it being Gods choice of when we will die. Now, to me, if he's gonna create us all, and then let us live our lives until HE says so, then isn't that as bad as pointing a gun to a new born child? Humans might one day have been foolish enough to die for their God, but not nowadays lol.

-----

Another great big turd of a rant is this stem cell research. Alot of religous people are saying that we are playing God by doing so. Are we really? God has supposedly given us the means AND ideas so technically, isn't it doing his will? If he's not gonna come down and give us a miracle cure, then we have got to find one for ourselves, or are we supposed to just sit back and watch our loved ones die like a jehovas witness? (Won't allow blood transfers even for their children.) OOHHHH NEW THREAD IDEA ;D.

So in all, God, if you are there, either get off your ass and help the beings you created, or tell these nutjobs to let the real people do their thing to save human kind k? kthx <3

[Rophage]

Oh, this reminds me of a time when I went to see a comedian...can't quite remember which one, I went to see like three in the past month...but basically he started ranting like one of those preachers who sings and speaks really loudly and tries to faith heal. Know the ones I mean?

Instead of being a faith healer (this was a rant at theism) he was going to be the opposite, the power of the human. He started calling out to the audience to yell HU-MAN! And then he asked for a volunteer, someone who was ill.

"You there! With the glasses!"
"Yes?"
"Stand up for me, I will fix your broken vision through the power of the human!"
"OK"
"Take off your glasses and watch in awe as I fix your broken vision! Would you please put your glasses back on?"
*Puts his glasses on*
"Is your vision healed?"
"Yes!"
"Witness the power of the human and their two pieces of glass that are slightly concave or convex depending on the shape of the eye they were designed for. Let me hear a HU-MAN!"

[Nagase]

lmao rophage, I gotta see that xD Lemme know if you remember his name yeah? XD

[Halfmetal]

Considering God sends US to hell for murder, he sure does alot of murdering himself, such as natural disasters. Opinions please?

The problem of evil. It's not an easy problem to resolve. God probably does that becuase a greater good might come out of it. Or it might be a test or something. There are many theodicies. Most of them fail. Some of them don't.

Now, lets get rid of him with the amazing "omnipotence paradox":
God as we know him is almighty, omnipotent. He created Adam, and made him a chick out of one of his ribs (quite a feat!) along with all the animals (and apples!). Also, he made a virgin )girl who's never had a god fuck) have a baby. However, could almighty god create a rock so heavy even he couldn't lift it? Either, he could create a rock he can't lift or he cannot create a rock he cannot lift. If he can create it but not lift it, he's not almighty. If he cannot make such a rock, he's still not almighty. This concludes that omnipotence is impossible, and since God is omnipotent, he can't possibly exist when just omnipotence is...impossible!

Thank you so much for not doing what i told you to do, earlier, and read that wiki article, properly.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument isn't worth a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Culluphid from making a fortune with his book Well That About Wraps It Up For God."

:blink: What? It could have just been a coincidence thouguh. Culluphid made a fortune becuase not everyone is a theologian. The God Delusion is a popular book and it's all a load of shit. The Dawkins Delusion, the Dawkins Confusion, and Is Religious Dangeruous? are all books only an educated philosopher would read.

[Fenristh]

Alot of religous people are saying that we are playing God by doing so. Are we really? God has supposedly given us the means AND ideas so technically, isn't it doing his will? If he's not gonna come down and give us a miracle cure, then we have got to find one for ourselveslol yes exactly. :cookie: If God has supposedly created everything we have and do, then why give us facilities to supposedly defy him? Or, as you said, should we all just die? D:

In the same way I don't see how curing any other disease or illness isnt classes as "playing god" as well. Why should stem cells be any different to a Lemsip? :lol:

[Nagase]

The problem of evil. It's not an easy problem to resolve. God probably does that becuase a greater good might come out of it. Or it might be a test or something. There are many theodicies. Most of them fail. Some of them don't.

I'm sure alot of good comes from killing thousands of people with a tsunami and destroying everyones homes.

[Halfmetal]

You never know. No one can say for sure how events can turn out. I doubt many or perhaps all theodicies will convince a staunch athiest.

[Halfmetal]

lol yes exactly. :cookie: If God has supposedly created everything we have and do, then why give us facilities to supposedly defy him? Or, as you said, should we all just die? D:

In the same way I don't see how curing any other disease or illness isnt classes as "playing god" as well. Why should stem cells be any different to a Lemsip? :lol:

That's ridiculous. He gave us the facilities to kill as well, doesn't mean he wants us to. He just wants us the make the right decision. Free-will. Ofcource we have to have the ability to defy him, otherwise we have no free-will.

[Fenristh]

Im struggling to understand the concept of a tsunami killing people being a good thing.

That's ridiculous. He gave us the facilities to kill as well, doesn't mean he wants us to. He just wants us the make the right decision. Free-will. Ofcource we have to have the ability to defy him, otherwise we have no free-will.Why give us that ability if it's so wrong then? I'm not saying killing people is the right thing to do, I just don't like the argument that curing people of a disease which would otherwise kill them is wrong. :cookie:

Technically, allowing someone to die by not treating them is killing them. OMG D; I'd also like to point out that stabbing someone in the eye takes a little less know how than curing cancer.

[Allen Walker]

Why give us that ability if it's so wrong then?

Thats the way the world is. We make our own choices.

[Fenristh]

Thats the way the world is. We make our own choices.
So then whats the problem? People make their own choice to use a stem cell to save someones life.

[Halfmetal]

No problem. Unless God asked you not to. Then you have done something wrong. Some believe that an embryo is actually a human; it should be valued as highly as a human life. You can disobey. He gave you that option. But he also warned you as well, as some believe, that it was the wrong option.

[Fenristh]

Steam cells are very often taken from aborted fetuses, therefore, already dead. It's not taking a life at all, you could argue that aborting the baby is but that's something completely different.

[Halfmetal]

Ah, that's certainly fine. I'm sure most would agree. :)

[Nagase]

You never know. No one can say for sure how events can turn out. I doubt many or perhaps all theodicies will convince a staunch athiest.


Serisouly, nothing good can come out of thousands of deaths.

That's ridiculous. He gave us the facilities to kill as well, doesn't mean he wants us to. He just wants us the make the right decision. Free-will. Ofcource we have to have the ability to defy him, otherwise we have no free-will.

Just the kind of answer I'd expect.

That's ridiculous. He gave us the facilities to kill as well, doesn't mean he wants us to.

He kills us enough. Let me put it like this.

We are created in Gods image, yet we FIGHT, we KILL, we HATE, we rule with FEAR and when someone doesn't do something we want, for example an opposing country, we attack with wrath. That is one part fo the bible that does make sense.

You guys are gonna hate this. If we had from the start, treated each other, every single human we came across, like you treated your God, then this world would be a eutopia. There would be no wars, no violence...nothing. If we dedicated ourselves to each other, like we dedicate ourselves to God, there wouldn't be a need for one.

[Misschoco]

sooooo....practically god gave us free will so he could enjoy what we do with it which was kill...kill oh and kill.If almighty god is Omniscience then he would've known that our world would have been filled with conscience empty lunatics which contribute to the crime in society.God probably never wanted our world to be a fairy dairy utopia in the first place.

well thats my opinion anyways

[Whiplash]

I don't think I've posted in this thread before and am doing so now mainly because I don't really think it's fair on Halfmetal to carry out this argument by himself, but as this debate will not have any resolution and will probably go around and around in circles and be generally futile, I also won't be staying.

I've only really been loosely following this debate so forgive me if anything I say has already been said or if I've missed someone's point entirely.

To begin with, to hold all religion and, by extension, religious people as inherently bad (I won't use 'evil' because that's a religious word only really) because of some wars is ridiculous; you might as well be prejudice against the Germans or Japanese because of the wars they've started, which have probably cost more lives.

Of course, there will always be people who do evil (here I will use the word) and call it their religion but the basic tenants when it comes to human relations of all of the major religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism) is to tolerate others and cause them no harm. Anyone who claims to be from one of these religions that does otherwise is, as far as these religions are concerned, not actually practicing their religion. They have strayed from the path. In the end, there will always be good or bad people, and the bad people will always try to justify their actions and portray them as good. Religion is just one of many of these justifications. However, if you feel you can then condemn something that actually works for peace and encourages many not only to live in harmony but to try and ensure that less fortunate people and victims of whatever become less less fortunate and so forth, through charity, then by all means do so. You have the free will to do so, you can believe what you want (again making this argument futile from my perspective). Religion by no means has a monopoly on charity, just as I'm not suggesting that atheists have a monopoly on evil, human nature ensures that both sides get a fairly equal distribution with my main point being that religion at leasts discourages evil behaviour that harms life and encourages the opposite (and I reititerate, this is the main similarity between all the major religions). And that sentence was so long I'm not sure if I ended it where I intended to or if I had another point to make that I forgot because of how long it took me to get there.

And now I'm certain I've forgotten something but eh. As for God, I'm a 17 year old girl with, at the moment, only a high school education to my name, and the religious aspect of that education was fairly lacking if I may say so (the catholic eduaction system needs a serious overhaul, I'm convinced that many people knew more about catholicism coming into it then they did going out); I'm not really qualified, nor are any of us here, to speculate on what could be the motivations of God or why certain things happen, if we assume that he does exist.

And some good did come out of the tsunami, though it arguably doesn't outweigh the massive loss of life. Those who survived probably gained a new perspective on life and the rest of the world was united in one goal (and a good one at that) for a moment in time when so many countries committed themselves to helping the affected regions recover. It reminded everyone unaffected of 1. how precious life is, 2. the serious problems other people outside their normal sphere of thought faced and 3. how fortunate they themselves were/are (a generalisation of course, but you get my point).

Dammit, I've forgotten how I was going to finish. To hell with debating!

Of course I'm not an evangelist and so I don't really care if anyone listens to me or not (like it would happen on the internet anyway :cloud:) but I think people really need to break out of their stereotypical, close-minded and generalised way of thinking to realise 'hey, it aint all bad'.

I'm Kent Brockman and that's my two cents.

[Rophage]

Whoop, go Whippy go!

I think what I have learnt from the frantic bickering of all this relgious debate on this forum is the following:

It is not about what you believe but what you are. There will be evil on both sides and good on both sides. Every person is an individual and so whether they believe in a god(s) or not is irrelevant, it is what they choose to do with those beliefs. Whether they choose to use those beliefs as an excuse for war, or to prevent others from gaining a foothold in a society it is the same on all sides. The beliefs on each side do not matter because we are all the same species with all the same emotions and we all experience things in the same way, there really is no need for an argument because nothing will change because there is nothing TO change.

God, I feel like a Christmas special...

[Halfmetal]

Serisouly, nothing good can come out of thousands of deaths.

Really? What if all of them turned out to do horrible acts of crime or victims of them and God instead gave them a less painful death while others who mourn their deaths learn a lot more about life and many people from around the world have the chance to do something charitable and do so? You can never know, Nagase. Don't pretend you do.



He kills us enough. Let me put it like this.

We are created in Gods image, yet we FIGHT, we KILL, we HATE, we rule with FEAR and when someone doesn't do something we want, for example an opposing country, we attack with wrath. That is one part fo the bible that does make sense.

And we make PEACE, we SAVE, and we LOVE aswell as well perform acts of true ALTRUISM. Being pessimistic is not the same as being realistic.


You guys are gonna hate this. If we had from the start, treated each other, every single human we came across, like you treated your God, then this world would be a eutopia. There would be no wars, no violence...nothing. If we dedicated ourselves to each other, like we dedicate ourselves to God, there wouldn't be a need for one.

That's...yeah.

sooooo....practically god gave us free will so he could enjoy what we do with it which was kill...kill oh and kill.If almighty god is Omniscience then he would've known that our world would have been filled with conscience empty lunatics which contribute to the crime in society.God probably never wanted our world to be a fairy dairy utopia in the first place.

Damn it, you're only focusing on the bad things. He gave us free will so we could learn to be moral. Think about it. If you do something moral, but you were only following orders and didn't even think of what you were doing, would you truly be doing a moral thing? The effect is certainly moral, but would YOU be?


I don't think I've posted in this thread before and am doing so now mainly because I don't really think it's fair on Halfmetal to carry out this argument by himself,

I don't mind. I can handle the heat. That's some nice ranting by the way. :)

[Fenristh]

What if all of them turned out to do horrible acts of crime or victims of them and God instead gave them a less painful death while others who mourn their deaths learn a lot more about life and many people from around the world have the chance to do something charitable and do so? You can never know, Nagase. Don't pretend you do.

Well that certainly seems like a realistic situation. :cookie: Incase you didn't know, there was a big tsunami, people did die and the chances that they were all murderers and rapists is pretty low. Teaching people about life from their loved ones dying is pretty stupid, we're not in an anime. When someone you love dies you feel like shit. Some people never get over grief, surely thats worse than being in the eye with a tsunami?

[Aimen]

Can I just say that I find it quite ironic that it's said that people who follow God are good-hearted and everything etc. etc. but yet I've read many stories on Vicars touching up the choir boys? :cunning:

Just wanted to put that out there. :cunning:

[Nagase]

Really? What if all of them turned out to do horrible acts of crime or victims of them and God instead gave them a less painful death while others who mourn their deaths learn a lot more about life and many people from around the world have the chance to do something charitable and do so? You can never know, Nagase. Don't pretend you do.Yes, an entire village was a bunch of ted bundy's. Cmon don't be fucking stupid. Innocent people died, men women and children. If a swarm of terrorsits blew the city to shit, would you be so convincned it was for a good reason? No, it's because your fucking God supposedly did it.

Can I just say that I find it quite ironic that it's said that people who follow God are good-hearted and everything etc. etc. but yet I've read many stories on Vicars touching up the choir boys?

Ironic really how the people that have dedicated their life to God go and do something like that. I'm sure it sets a good example. :cookie: Well said Aimen.

[ukillwegrill]

Can I just say that I find it quite ironic that it's said that people who follow God are good-hearted and everything etc. etc. but yet I've read many stories on Vicars touching up the choir boys? :cunning:

Just wanted to put that out there. :cunning:

All religion are full of deceit and hatred to others but they still preach good will to all who follow them.
The catholic church for example (which i am a proud member of) took part in thousands of killings throughout the crusade ( think Assassins creed ) .

From my perspective being a catholic will help me cement a place in heaven however a muslim may think that because of my beliefs i will go to hell and them to heaven so that quote may differ from religon to religion

[Lifrasthir]

Kind of. I'm saying, tell me some things that God effected in your life.

God took me out of China and placed me in a good home with a good mother in a good church. If I were still in China, my life would be completely different. It would be much harder and I wouldn't feel the hope that I feel here. Why wasn't I killed like a lot of other girls? Instead I ended up in an orphange and was adopted by the age of one. I know of a girl in one of the orphanages who was abandoned as a baby and has never been adopted. She's fifteen or sixteen now. If it is not God then I don't know what it is. Chance just doesn't make any sense to me.

I disagree again, for instance, and not one im proud of, I've been in a fair few fights, concerning chavs, and the only thing looking out for you in positions like that are your friends and/or your own strength. No one looks out for you apart from mortal people, like friends and family.

Um...I'm not sure what "chavs" are...And there I disagree with you. (It just goes in one large circle eh?) God does look out for people. Miracles are always happening.

I'm guessing that you think God is a man from what you've said. :cunning: I just wanted to know if this was unintentional or not, and if not why do you think God is a man instead of a woman or just a genderless being? :cunning:

I believe that God is Father, Son, and Spirit. (God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.) I suppose it could be unintentional that I have suggested that I believe that God is a man. In truth I do treat Him as though He were standing right next to me talking with me. But I also believe that He is divine. I think of God as "Him" because it says "Him" in the Bible all the time. It never says "She" or "Sexless Being" in the scripture. At least none that I'm aware of. And I highly doubt that it's in there.

although we were suppoedly created in his image.

Bingo. :thumbsup:

I just don't understand why its followers produce so much hatred towards those who question.

Do I hate you? I think not. I'm sorry if others hate you because you question but not everyone hates nonbelievers...

Life without believing in God is kickass. When i was young, i had to go to a Sunday School (because my nan was like the one responsible for it) and it made me realize that religion takes away free will in some, if not many cases. I love how i can make my own good or bastard-like decisions and not become bat shit scared because i won't get to go to a heaven. Even if i know that what i did will compose bad repurcussions, i'll still enjoy the fact that the event is what I made it, not some 2000 year old book.

There I totally disagree with you. Because I've decided to obey the boundaries that God has given us it's totally kept me out of some real hairy situations.

Considering God sends US to hell for murder, he sure does alot of murdering himself, such as natural disasters. Opinions please?

Do you think God causes natural disasters? He sits on his throne and says "I don't like the people in Florida, so let's send a massive hurricane that they will name Henry that will kill all those people." C'mon, that doesn't make much sense does it?

Im struggling to understand the concept of a tsunami killing people being a good thing.

It's not a good thing.

We are created in Gods image, yet we FIGHT, we KILL, we HATE, we rule with FEAR and when someone doesn't do something we want, for example an opposing country, we attack with wrath. That is one part fo the bible that does make sense.

You guys are gonna hate this. If we had from the start, treated each other, every single human we came across, like you treated your God, then this world would be a eutopia. There would be no wars, no violence...nothing. If we dedicated ourselves to each other, like we dedicate ourselves to God, there wouldn't be a need for one.

We are created in God's image, it says so in Genesis, but we FIGHT, KILL, HATE, and rule with FEAR because we are fallen creatures. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, we fell from grace.

So then the people in Heaven have no need for God? Because Heaven is a perfect place.

sooooo....practically god gave us free will so he could enjoy what we do with it which was kill...kill oh and kill.If almighty god is Omniscience then he would've known that our world would have been filled with conscience empty lunatics which contribute to the crime in society.God probably never wanted our world to be a fairy dairy utopia in the first place.

well thats my opinion anyways

He doesn't enjoy people killing each other. In fact it tears His heart apart to see people so far away from Him that they would submit to Satan and go ahead and kill people. I'm not exactly sure though if God did want our world to be a fair dair utopia. He gave Adam and Eve free will to choose whether or not they would succumb to Satan's temptation.

I don't think I've posted in this thread before and am doing so now mainly because I don't really think it's fair on Halfmetal to carry out this argument by himself,

I had to go out of town where there was no internet available to me. Otherwise I would've been here. <_<

but as this debate will not have any resolution and will probably go around and around in circles and be generally futile, I also won't be staying.

Ha, I'm sure it is just going to go in circles. Oh well.

Can I just say that I find it quite ironic that it's said that people who follow God are good-hearted and everything etc. etc. but yet I've read many stories on Vicars touching up the choir boys? :cunning:

Just wanted to put that out there. :cunning:

Ironic really how the people that have dedicated their life to God go and do something like that. I'm sure it sets a good example. :cookie: Well said Aimen.

Can I just say fallen? Just because someone says they follow God doesn't mean that they'll be perfect. The temptation of sin is always there and stories like that are always examples of, if the person or people are actually following God truly, people giving in to the temptation that presents itself to them and their giving up the fight against temptation. True, it doesn't set a very good example and probably makes some people draw further away from that specific religion.

[Rekhyt]

God took me out of China and placed me in a good home with a good mother in a good church. If I were still in China, my life would be completely different. It would be much harder and I wouldn't feel the hope that I feel here. Why wasn't I killed like a lot of other girls? Instead I ended up in an orphange and was adopted by the age of one. I know of a girl in one of the orphanages who was abandoned as a baby and has never been adopted. She's fifteen or sixteen now. If it is not God then I don't know what it is. Chance just doesn't make any sense to me.

Unless you were physically blown all the way from China in a huge gust of wind, God did shit all to help you. That comes under free will of whoever did whatever to move you from China.

Do I hate you? I think not. I'm sorry if others hate you because you question but not everyone hates nonbelievers...

From what I've gathered you are a fairly conservative Christian so i would assume that you believe non-believers will burn in hell, facing the constant pain and wrath of God. If that's not hate what is?


Do you think God causes natural disasters? He sits on his throne and says "I don't like the people in Florida, so let's send a massive hurricane that they will name Henry that will kill all those people." C'mon, that doesn't make much sense does it?

Well then who else could have done it in your opinion? Us? If you're going to say God helped you out of China you have to say he did the bad events too.

We are created in God's image, it says so in Genesis, but we FIGHT, KILL, HATE, and rule with FEAR because we are fallen creatures. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, we fell from grace.

Why are we all to blame for the actions of two people tricked by a talking snake? We aren't punished for the actions of everyone else are we?

Ha, I'm sure it is just going to go in circles. Oh well.

The point of this section is for some intellectual discussion, and to further understand why some people believe what they believe. The fact that it's relatively pointless makes no difference.

[Interficio Nocte]

Ok, don't think I have gotten into this argument either.

I personally think that every person in existence wants to think that they were not an accident, made by chance, or useless. So naturally, I think that every person is drawn toward religion in some way. Even if it's by hatred for religion (I thin that happens because we hate what we do not understand most of the time), or yearning for understanding of it.

So, I think that non-believers sometimes try and argue with Christians (who go totally on scripture and personal faith) so that they can feel better about the choice they have made to not believe. I am going to be honest, non-believers will always win in an argument. They could bring up natural disasters (the tsunami's), free-choice, tons of stuff that God put into action that makes God out to be a sadistic murderer.

On the other side of the argument, as Christians all we can do is have faith in what we believe to be true, and try and make other non-believers question things. Such as Heaven and Hell, God himself, meaning of life, Etc. to hopefully let them make sense out of things and then they will either join the faith or continue to live and eventually burn in Hell (or wherever else, depending on what religion you are a believer of).

Do not know how to wrap this up nicely, so...The End.:cookie:

EDIT: The whole, god did nothing to get her out of China. No true, God gave us free will, thus letting those people choose to adopt.

[Lifrasthir]

Unless you were physically blown all the way from China in a huge gust of wind, God did shit all to help you. That comes under free will of whoever did whatever to move you from China.

I suppose it was the free will of the orphanage workers to say "this child matches perfectly with this person who wants to adopt so we'll give her this child." Honestly I don't think it works like that. I doubt the orphanage workers really knew anything about my mom. You're saying that chance brought me to the life I have now?

From what I've gathered you are a fairly conservative Christian so i would assume that you believe non-believers will burn in hell, facing the constant pain and wrath of God. If that's not hate what is?

It depends on the way you want to think of it. I do not wish for non-believers to burn in Hell but I know that's what will happen to those who don't accept Jesus.

Well then who else could have done it in your opinion? Us? If you're going to say God helped you out of China you have to say he did the bad events too.

Bad events, such as natural disasters, happen because nature occurs. For instance, hurricanes are "tropical cyclone is a meteorological term for a storm system characterized by a low pressure system center and thunderstormsthat produces strong wind and flooding rain. A tropical cyclone feeds on the heat released when moist air rises and the water vapor it contains condenses. They are fueled by a different heat mechanism than other cyclonic windstorms such as nor'easters, European windstorms, and polar lows, leading to their classification as "warm core" storm systems."- Wikipedia Bad events such as murders happen because people choose to murder.

Why are we all to blame for the actions of two people tricked by a talking snake? We aren't punished for the actions of everyone else are we?

No, we aren't punished for the actions of everyone else. But Adam and Eve's fall left us fallen too. It really doesn't seem fair does it? We're fallen by default because of two people. I don't understand why God chose to do it this way. All I know is that He did.

[Rophage]

It depends on the way you want to think of it. I do not wish for non-believers to burn in Hell but I know that's what will happen to those who don't accept Jesus.

Woah, woah, woah, woah...woah.

You seriously believe that a supposedly all loving all forgiving deity would sentence a person to an eternal damnation because of, in all likeliness, their upbringing? You think that had you been adopted by an atheist family or a jewish family you would be damned? Bcause you are no dount a christian due to your upbringing, I know that I would most probably be christian if raised by christians but I'm not. A lot of people who you say the omni benevolent god would cause to burn lead better lives than those who would go to heaven! Setting aside the fact I don't believ in him in the first place, that just doesn't seem logical to me!

[Rekhyt]

I suppose it was the free will of the orphanage workers to say "this child matches perfectly with this person who wants to adopt so we'll give her this child." Honestly I don't think it works like that. I doubt the orphanage workers really knew anything about my mom. You're saying that chance brought me to the life I have now?

...

Bad events, such as natural disasters, happen because nature occurs. For instance, hurricanes are "tropical cyclone is a meteorological term for a storm system characterized by a low pressure system center and thunderstormsthat produces strong wind and flooding rain. A tropical cyclone feeds on the heat released when moist air rises and the water vapor it contains condenses. They are fueled by a different heat mechanism than other cyclonic windstorms such as nor'easters, European windstorms, and polar lows, leading to their classification as "warm core" storm systems."- Wikipedia Bad events such as murders happen because people choose to murder.

Why is the good thing the will of god while the bad thing is nature? Surely God incorporates nature as well. Similarly why is it free will that murders and such happen while your adopted parent’s choice was caused by God?

[Nagase]

God took me out of China and placed me in a good home with a good mother in a good church. If I were still in China, my life would be completely different. It would be much harder and I wouldn't feel the hope that I feel here.


Nope, you'll find that wasn't God. It's America and england who keep taking in people from different countries. Thank the goverment, not God.

[Halfmetal]

Well that certainly seems like a realistic situation. Incase you didn't know, there was a big tsunami, people did die and the chances that they were all murderers and rapists is pretty low. Teaching people about life from their loved ones dying is pretty stupid, we're not in an anime. When someone you love dies you feel like shit. Some people never get over grief, surely thats worse than being in the eye with a tsunami?

Look, you’re still looking at it from your point of view. Perhaps not all of them would have been horrible people or victims of horrible acts, but they probably didn’t die in vain. I also said there would be the chance to be charitable. Some people never get over their grief? But do you really know that’s what happened? There are always lessons to be learnt, anyway. I learnt the value of kindness from unkind, tolerance from the intolerant, patience from the impatient. Some people never get over the grief, because perhaps they didn’t take the chance. I’m not living in a fantasy world, at least that’s not what I think. If that IS what you think then, remember, that’s just your opinion. Not fact.


Yes, an entire village was a bunch of ted bundy's. Cmon don't be fucking stupid. Innocent people died, men women and children. If a swarm of terrorsits blew the city to shit, would you be so convincned it was for a good reason? No, it's because your fucking God supposedly did it.

Yes, I still would. Please, just consider a theists point of view. Things aren’t what they always appear to be. You can’t say that any event, if it never happened, would have left the world better or worse. You’re so convinced because you’re an atheist. I’m so convinced because I’m religious.

[Fenristh]

It depends on the way you want to think of it. I do not wish for non-believers to burn in Hell but I know that's what will happen to those who don't accept Jesus.So you're saying if you're a perfectly good, friendly nice person who's never done anything wrong... but you don't believe in god you're going to burn in hell forever? :lol:

THIS is what I mean by scaring people into religion. "There's no way out unless you accept god" :cookie:


Nope, you'll find that wasn't God. It's America and england who keep taking in people from different countries. Thank the goverment, not God.

lol exactly. There's a logical process for that kind of thing. :cunning:

[Halfmetal]

Nope, you'll find that wasn't God. It's America and england who keep taking in people from different countries. Thank the goverment, not God.

I think it's down to interpretation. I'm not surprised that a religious person might interpret it that way, but I'm not surprised either that you and dante interpret it THAT way either.

@Lifrasthir - Reykht may have a point.

"Why is the good thing the will of god while the bad thing is nature? Surely God incorporates nature as well. Similarly why is it free will that murders and such happen while your adopted parent’s choice was caused by God?"

Hmmm. Perhaps it can be a mix? Mostly, God does not intervene and lets us work things out for ourseleves, but perhpas he'll pop up occasionally to let us know we're still there. Natural Evil is something else. I think there is no one reason as to why God allows it but I believe all of those combined must lead to a greater good.

[Nagase]

Yes, I still would. Please, just consider a theists point of view. Things aren’t what they always appear to be. You can’t say that any event, if it never happened, would have left the world better or worse. You’re so convinced because you’re an atheist. I’m so convinced because I’m religious.

You don't have to be religous to figure that thousands of deaths or any sort of genocide can in anyway be a good thing....that's just plain creepy. Did you have a house party when 911 happened?

[Halfmetal]

You don't have to be religous to figure that thousands of deaths or any sort of genocide can in anyway be a good thing....that's just plain creepy. Did you have a house party when 911 happened?

I want you to re-read that first sentence, and tell me if that makes any sense, because I think you've made an error or a typo.

No, I didn't. You don't celebrate a sad event. There's no argument there and you asked that for no reason other than to exagerate my point.

[Nagase]

It depends on the way you want to think of it. I do not wish for non-believers to burn in Hell but I know that's what will happen to those who don't accept Jesus.

So I'm going to hell with terrorists and people who act out genocides, what a classic religon.

Originally Posted by Nagase http://forums.finalfantasy-xiii.net/images/dark_vb_v2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.finalfantasy-xiii.net/showthread.php?p=60201#post60201)
You don't have to be religous to figure that thousands of deaths or any sort of genocide can in anyway be a good thing....that's just plain creepy. Did you have a house party when 911 happened?


I want you to re-read that first sentence, and tell me if that makes any sense, because I think you've made an error or a typo.

Makes perfect sense.

[Halfmetal]

"You don't have to be religous to figure that thousands of deaths or any sort of genocide can in anyway be a good thing"

I'm not gonna make any assumptions unless i get it wrong, which is why I'm asking: Don't you mean can't in anyway be a good thing?

[edit]Oh but that doesn't make sense either.

Look what you just said is supporting me. It's saying one can be an athiest or agnostic and still believe that genocide can lead to a greater good.

[edit] Oh I get it know! You must have meant "You don't have to be an athiest to figure that thousands of deaths or any sort of genocide can't in anyway be a good thing"

[Nagase]

I meant can't -_-.

Religous or not:

Thousands Of Deaths - Bad

Genocide - Bad

There CANNOT be anything good from seeing that many people die.

[Halfmetal]

Look, repeating your point but using Upper case still won't make you anymore right than you were before.

[Thimien]

in all honesty... its all a shambles... as time went on, our solar system was created, so earth was to. at some point people came about... and had no meaning in their life couse of their primative minds, they decided to invent this word "God" said it was God that put us here, and everyone somehow shuted up lol

Then what hpn, people with more than halth a brain, decided to milk the idea and it become a world wide thing... some make money out of it and some suicide them selfs for it... and wars are fought in his name,

so tell me, beeing a brain washed believer worrying so much about heaven they forget they are living right now is so much fun isent it?? or just be an non believer and F the lot of them :) couse they are so damn blind... God Bless Science ;)

[Halfmetal]

so tell me, beeing a brain washed believer worrying so much about heaven they forget they are living right now is so much fun isent it??

Oh i don't think God gave us a life to waste it, if that's what you are asking.

[Nagase]

Oh seems this threads come back to life! Hoorah! :dance:

[Cathryn]

rofl.
Well daym :aldo:

[Rekhyt]

Oh i don't think God gave us a life to waste it, if that's what you are asking.

I think Thimien was trying to say that the people who focus on getting into the afterlife, heaven and avoid hell are wasting their life on Earth. Which i guess does make sense if he was referring to fundamentalists.

Oh and Thimien clean up your damn posts. You sound like an idiot.

[deceptacon]

a fucking men rekhyt

^5

[Shuyu]

I was born into a pseudo-Catholic family. When I say that, I mean my parents had a Catholic wedding and thus, their vows included all children being brought up in the Catholic faith.

My father is still quite strong in his faith in that, any dissent I show to Catholicism is worthy for punishment. He has forced me to attend various services. At the same time, I have willingly participated in a Catholic wedding, I have attended Christenings, and listened about how my great-grandmother was "resting in the light of God."

I am a very tolerant person. I have no pronounced prejudices. I am not going to assume every black person is a criminal, I am not going to assume every gay person is immoral, I am not going to assume every Muslim is a terrorist. Along with that, I am also not going to assume that all Christians are idiots. I once did, then I sorted out my own beliefs, and accepted their choice.

I do not follow any particular religion. The concept of organized religion is not something that really makes all that much sense to me. That said, I do believe in a higher being, and I attribute many things to that entity.

For simplicity's sake, I do call that being 'God', although I will often not capitalise it so as to not have people associate it with the Christian God, because I believe that's not what it is. However, through the remains of this post, I will capitalise it for noticability.

The short version of what follows is: I have used the knowledge I have of various religions to create what makes the most sense to me, as unbiased as possible, and believe it holds just as much verity as Christianity, Juddaism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, and every other religion practised in the world.
Naturally, however, being "created" by myself, it is quite obviously going to hold my own ideology and what I believe is right - but that's exactly what religion is in an impure form.

And now, I present the unabridged version:

I do not believe in Heaven and Hell as being the final destinations for people's souls once they die. I do not believe in Heaven and Hell at all. I believe in one realm of existence for God, one realm of existence for the dead, and one realm of existence for the living.

I believe in the realm for the dead to be a personal experience. Each individual gets - not necessarily what they desire - but a world which best emulates their various thoughts and personalities throughout their life. So yes, a murderer may be tortured in this place by memories and visages of his victims. A murderer may also welcome the world, for it might demonstrate the pleasant things he found in doing what he/she did.

I believe the realm of God to be the greatest of all possible places. From the dead, he will pick his servants - those that he deems most deserving. (Again, for the sake of explaining it as simply as possible to people who happen to ask, I use the term 'angels' to describe these servants.) Those chosen join him, above the planes of the dead and the living. THAT is the place where people get the world they desire, completely unfettered by their fears, 'sins', sadness, anger and hate. Why do they get this over everyone else? Because they are under the direct influence of God's power, the purest energy in existence.

I believe God is all-merciful in every single case. For me, there is no "I am all-merciful if you do this and only this, anything else and I'm gonna kick your ass." I believe as such because that is fair. I believe in redeemable mistakes rather than all-damning sins. I believe that death is a freedom from life and that your fate is never truly deciding until after you die. By my definition, that is the absolute purest form of fairness - everyone gets a chance to redeem themselves.

I believe that those living are free to do as they please. Absolutely free. A particular culture may deter someone from doing something. In which case, they choose not to do it due to the consequences the chosen authority chose to put in place for people who choose to perform that specific action.

I believe that God is not going to treat a man who beats his wife - a person he is united with under the holy word of God - the same as a man who loves, cares for, and bangs another man.

I believe that God is not going to liken the fate of a serial rapist to that of someone who does not live by his rules, but is still a good and fair person.

Really, I don't believe that any religion is as fair and true as it may claim itself to be. Some parts are, but there's always something just as prominent to kick it down from the perfect thing. And, although I don't go for it myself, I believe polytheism is the most sensical thing of all. You piss off the God of Fertility, you don't have children. Stuff like that. It's very much a "you break it, you bought it" approach. And yet, while it does make the most sense to me, I choose not to accept it because it isn't my idea of what religion should be.

I suppose my beliefs are why I have no problem expressing discontent - even hate - for people. Hey, for all I know, it may come to bite me on the ass. Then again, it may not. I understand that people use religion as guidance and explanation for the unexplainable, but I don't think life'd be any fun if there wasn't an element of mystery to it.

-----------


That's where I stand on the matter. As the rest of you, I'm not easily going to be swayed. You can say I'm going to burn for all eternity in Hell, and all I can do is beg for God's mercy. My reaction every time will be "Whatever happens, happens. That's not for you to assume." I believe that if I'm going to be tortured in any way after death, then I will be at the mercy of those I have openly expressed hate for, not God's. And that may not even be eternal.

Although, to be quite honest, I don't even think about it that much. I'll worry about it when I get to it - i.e., when I die. XD

How I managed to compose such a coherent (at least, by my standards) post at 2:30 in the morning, I have no idea. Give me 10 hours sleep and I'll be back to my insane, nonsensical ways.

[Halfmetal]

I think Thimien was trying to say that the people who focus on getting into the afterlife, heaven and avoid hell are wasting their life on Earth. Which i guess does make sense if he was referring to fundamentalists.
.

Oh, I see. Well that doesn't sound so bad. If they're doing that then they are trying to do as much good as possible aren't they? Isn't that the best thing a person can do? Obviously their intentions aren't exactly great but that doesn't negate the good effects they've brought about. I don't think they're doing anything wrong.

@ - Shuyu - I like how you've thought of it so thoroughly. I think that particular form is called Deism. Is this what you were getting at?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[Nagase]

I tried....but I couldn't read all that....just didn't have enough energy. So I don't really know any constructive critism for this thread....however...ill try my best...

God isn't real...


Well that sums my thoughts up really. :cookie:

[Thimien]

Oh, I see. Well that doesn't sound so bad. If they're doing that then they are trying to do as much good as possible aren't they? Isn't that the best thing a person can do? Obviously their intentions aren't exactly great but that doesn't negate the good effects they've brought about. I don't think they're doing anything wrong

Well yeah for does who are doing good and are happy fair enough...

But then you get the guys who take it to letarely, and preach their life away to God, or thoes who whink genocide is a good way to prove they believe in God... hell for all i can see, most Wars are started by God... well if he does exist he may as well finish it. So far i aint in his favour thats for sure.

[Cilvia]

LOL
who are you to say those things? everyone choose his own religion,which he believes in.
And everyone who believes have a reason- miracles happend when you ask, or just you feel when really magical thing happend when you believe and hope on it.
i have my reason too, and i dont want to tell this,because its just not right. I dont know why this topic still exist, its really horrible, if you dont believe-its your case, if believers having fun reading non beliveres reasons of it- its awful-you read things which you have no part in it.
i ask you, think about yourselfs, its higher than just a new thread to spoil about, its serious things.

[Thimien]

Obviasly its serious, but if someone you loved died becouse some nutter believed he was killing him slef and everyone round him couse he has his reasons to believe in god, you would change your tune... i was only about 5mnts away from the xplosions in the London tube... i heard the eco... trust me it wasnt very nice.

read what i posted, i dont mind for does who are happy... i just dont agree with the rest... free world after all, i post, and people read if they want to.

regards to all

[Cilvia]

then youre lucky, that you saved in London and i dont think its just luck....
But you have no right to blame religion or people who believed.

[Thimien]

Cilvia i dont blame people who believe in religion, i blame people who believe and have no limits, and have to kill other believers to get a point across... i respect every religion, i simply dont believe couse their are more reason in my life not to believe than to believe God.

Im not gona say look around you... im gona say look at this world we live in...

[Cilvia]

anyway, there can be really religion un right fans, but its not your case to talk about them?
i dont really understand why you discuss about it here....
just my thought- its not right, religion is not theme to discuss about, close topic....

[Thimien]

honestly... i think it is... im tired fo people feeding religion as if its something from another world... if you dont want to talk about it dont come to this thread i gess... its an interesting topic, couse there are so many deferent ways of looking at it... and so many deferent people. Bring it on.

[Nagase]

Cilvia i dont blame people who believe in religion, i blame people who believe and have no limits.

I'm not saying they're right but atleast they'd die for their beliefs unlike nearly every other religon.

its not right, religion is not theme to discuss about, close topic....

Stfu + Gtfo, your like those people who whine about TV shows. If you don't like it, fuck off and read another thread.....

[Thimien]

Nagase here i am trying to be polite about all this, and you come along and do what i cant lol chill out matey

[Nagase]

She comes into a thread called "To non-god believers" and then says we should close the topic because we shouldnt talk about religon. I don't like being polite to morons.

[Misschoco]

religion is not theme to discuss about, close topic....
everyone is really entitled to an opinion-as long as it has some level of sensibility-religion should never be suggested as something of a taboo lets say

[Halfmetal]

She comes into a thread called "To non-god believers" and then says we should close the topic because we shouldnt talk about religon. I don't like being polite to morons.

Well she has a point really becuase this topic is about athiests, but I'm not surprised it turned out this way.

@ Thimien - I understand where you are coming from. You look at the world around you all everything you see seems to prove religion wrong. People doing horrible things in the name of religion. The fact that evil exists anyway, despite God being supposedly benevolent and omnipotent. Your point is that there are different ways in looking at the world, isn't it?

[Nagase]

The fact that evil exists anyway, despite God being supposedly benevolent and omnipotent. Your point is that there are different ways in looking at the world, isn't it?

Not really, we see how much evil goes around, there can only be a devil an no God, it would make sense.

I don't believe in either as most of you know, but if there were to be something, the Devil would be the one in chargem or the only one all together.

[Halfmetal]

er..yes, exactly. We all have different beliefs that are equally valid.

[Misschoco]

Not really, we see how much evil goes around, there can only be a devil an no God, it would make sense.

what if-the devil-is a manifestation of god??what if all this time we were worshiping him and he was just influencing our decisions towards acts of malice-you can think of it as reverse psychology-the bible has ten commandments right??reverse psychology would work in the way that the mentally weak would commit the opposite.The devil does have a voice.
im truly sorry if that sort of offended any believers

[Fenristh]

then youre lucky, that you saved in London and i dont think its just luck....
But you have no right to blame religion or people who believed.
Ugh, Im sorry but he wasn't "saved" by anyone. He just wasn't there when the bomb went off. If you do believe that god saved him from not being in the explosion then why the fuck did he let all those other people die?

religion is not theme to discuss about, close topic....

Wtf? Don't go into this thread or even this category if you're going to be offended so easily.

[Nagase]

Let me guess halfmetal, those people who died on the train "Died for a reason which might not be bad" because God decided.

[Misschoco]

Ugh, Im sorry but he wasn't "saved" by anyone. He just wasn't there when the bomb went off. If you do believe that god saved him from not being in the explosion then why the fuck did he let all those other people die?

precisely-so gods all powerful eh?didn't help him from preventing many deaths which should have been avoidable.We are basically lab rats if god decides not to intervene with us -leaving us to our own murderous acts,destructive behavior,and malice-his creation is an eden of human psychopaths

[Fenristh]

Let me guess halfmetal, those people who died on the train "Died for a reason which might not be bad" because God decided.


Ugh. :lol: Probably. :rolleyes:

I'll let you into a little secret... :cunning: God didn't explode it, someone with a bomb planned it.

We are basically lab rats if god decides not to intervene with us

rofl exactly.

[Misschoco]

Ugh. :lol: Probably. :rolleyes:

I'll let you into a little secret... :cunning: God didn't explode it, someone with a bomb planned it.
and who created that person-oh oh god did :rolleyes:

[Nagase]

There is no God, and if there is a Devil, then he seems to have control over the general population. I'll believe in God when he stops doing the Devils work.

To much evil for their to be something benovlent watching over us, and maybe he should stop watching and do something?

and who created that person-oh oh god didRidiculous isn't it.

God rules by Fear and wrath yet we're created in his image. Ironic.

[Halfmetal]

what if-the devil-is a manifestation of god??what if all this time we were worshiping him and he was just influencing our decisions towards acts of malice-you can think of it as reverse psychology-the bible has ten commandments right??reverse psychology would work in the way that the mentally weak would commit the opposite.The devil does have a voice.
im truly sorry if that sort of offended any believers

That doesn’t offend me in the least bit. You are right. It is a possibility. Just like the Matrix.

Wtf? Don't go into this thread or even this category if you're going to be offended so easily.

You just ignored her point completely, Dante.

Let me guess halfmetal, those people who died on the train "Died for a reason which might not be bad" because God decided.

If someone does something that leads to a good effect but he had no choice but to do it, does that make him moral? (Assuming that’s the only act he’s ever done)

[Nagase]

That doesn’t offend me in the least bit. You are right. It is a possibility. Just like the Matrix.
It is a possibility. Just like the Matrix.Your opinion on anything now means nothing.

[deceptacon]

That doesn’t offend me in the least bit. You are right. It is a possibility. Just like the Matrix.


you make it sound like any religion is more believable.

[Fenristh]

Your opinion on anything now means nothing.
AHAHAHA. Agreed. :lol:

[Devious]

You know, this will all be resolved when we can bring people back from the dead. As long as it's not Dawn of the Dead style.

AND YOU WILL BE PUT TO SHAME KIRA.

[Nagase]

You know, this will all be resolved when we can bring people back from the dead. As long as it's not Dawn of the Dead style.

AND YOU WILL BE PUT TO SHAME KIRA.

Yep, if we can one day get hold or design some technology to ressurect the dead, we can sure as hell ask them if they saw anything or went anywhere.

However if they said they saw nothing the religous people would like "God deleted their memories" or some other made up crap.

[estella]

Um, I think we're going off topic since this thread wasnt created for blasphemy.

Well, personally I take religion as perpetual faith to something unknown, something huge, God, who is omniscient. This faith I would turn to in the middle of immense pain, sadness and it will resurrect me. This will only make my life easier than others who do not possess a religion because you have someone to talk to within your being.

On the otherhand, this does not imply that free thinkers naturally make their lives difficult. They may be innately strong so that they may overcome the obstacles they confront in their lives, or they may be sensitive and fragile. This fragility makes them vulnerable, and to overcome it, you will need religion. Otherwise what will you believe in? Life without faith, without meaning, without moral it will only become irrational.

I ask for one more favor of the free thinkers: even if you dont give a damn about God, please show some respect for us believers for you own sake. Witho