Religion + War

[steeld]

Let's get things straight.. I'm not religious... However I do know content of the bible and such, so I have a question... Why are their religious wars?
They claim to fight for God, however doesn;t it say in the bible that thou shall not kill, and thou shall not hurt thy neighbhor, and I believe this principle is stated in every religion..
So are they committing a sin by killing and hurting other people?

[Allen Walker]

Innocent people is what "thou shalt not kill" refers to.

[Kitmitsu]

Innocent people is what "thou shalt not kill" refers to.

It doesn't say "Thou shall not kill the innocent". Also where in the bible does it say who is innocent or not?

[Zen]

Well. Some people don't give 2 shits of what the bible says. They are just looking for another reason to hold a gun and kill people.

[steeld]

some ppl yea but surely not the majority... could you kill someone?

[Devious]

some ppl yea but surely not the majority... could you kill someone?
Anyone could kill another person given the means and the motive. Fighting in the name of God is simply an excuse to justify your actions since you know what you are doing is wrong. As someone stated before in another thread, all wars are fought over land, religion is just a crappy (but effective) method of crowd control, because the people would rather hear "LET'S KILL THE BASTARDS, THEY HATE GOD AND WORSHIP THE DEVIL" than "LET'S KILL THE BASTARD SO WE CAN STEAL THEIR LAND SO WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE TO TAX!"

[steeld]

Catholics and christians then? they didnt fight over land, they were from the same country!

[Devious]

Catholics and christians then? they didnt fight over land, they were from the same country!
Historical example of catholics and christians fighting within the same country where the victor did not receive land?

[steeld]

then why dont the ppl who dont want war use the bible as an excuse to stop it?

[Devious]

then why dont the ppl who dont want war use the bible as an excuse to stop it?
They have. I'll bet in every war, at least 1 million people prayed to God for it to stop, and 100 preachers have tried to lecture the military about peace. It's just that the people who started the war never really cared about religion in the first place, they just want power and land.

[steeld]

sources?
i dont think land is always the case, power yes, but is that a price high enough to pay? i'd like to hear the opinion of a religious person...

[Devious]

sources?
i dont think land is always the case, power yes, but is that a price high enough to pay? i'd like to hear the opinion of a religious person...
No source, just common sense. More people use the bible to stop wars than start it, but the ones that start it cause more harm by far. What do you mean by price? Lives? It doesn't really matter because in war, human lives are expendable. It's horrible, but it's true. A soldier that killed 100 innocent people with their own families returns a hero. His honor comes at the cost of pain and suffering of 100 families.

[steeld]

in a war for obvious power yes,
however in a religious war the life's become a little less... expendable.. simply because if it did people will notice it and question the leader, they fight for religion, not because of their leader, but sometimes people are raised in not knowing any better, i believe this is most likely the cause in the middle east (please correct me if i am wrong)
with the price to pay i mean your sanity, and your religion. nowadays the bible isnt used to stop war, otherwise we would hear so much more about it. Also dont forget i am not only talking about the christian religion, but others as well.
We can try to use common sense, but sometimes common sense doesnt apply to wars.

[Hextan]

It makes me angry to think that a lot of problems in this world are caused by religion. I honestly think it's one of the things in this world that hinders more than helps. I honestly wish there wasn't any religion. Or rather most of the rules of these religions bother me. And if you look back many wars were fought for religous reasons. Religion breeds more hate, than love or peace. There is one example I am thinking of now but I will probably only bother to show it if I have to.

[Devious]

It makes me angry to think that a lot of problems in this world are caused by religion. I honestly think it's one of the things in this world that hinders more than helps. I honestly wish there wasn't any religion. Or rather most of the rules of these religions bother me. And if you look back many wars were fought for religous reasons. Religion breeds more hate, than love or peace. There is one example I am thinking of now but I will probably only bother to show it if I have to.
Amen to that. Yes I realize the irony of what I just said.

[steeld]

I wonder if people really really really tried to counter religious war with religious facts..

[Devious]

religious facts..
They exist? I thought they were just a myth!

[steeld]

with religious facts i mean things that are printed in the bible, that you could use as "proof"you might think that way, but religious people see them as facts, not myths

[Devious]

I wonder if people really really really tried to counter religious war with religious facts..

with religious facts i mean things that are printed in the bible, that you could use as "proof"you might think that way, but religious people see them as facts, not myths
Just because they're old and written in ink doesn't make them true.

[steeld]

okok maybe i choose a bad wording, you and i might not take them as facts, but religious people might see them as fact, maybe they grew up believing in them, if you believe in something, that something becomes your fact

[Lifrasthir]

I agree with Rev. People can claim that they are fighting in God's name or that God told them to start a war but they're just using that as an excuse. We have religious wars for a number of reasons..People don't like another people and so they say God told them to go kill them, but God never told them anything. People's religions don't get along so they go to war with each other...Things like that.

[Halfmetal]

I can totally agree with that as well. Religion has always just been an excuse. And a poor one too considering everytime someone has started a war over religion, the religion they actually believe in would tell them not to do so.

It's their excuse for being intolerant, as well. Now that the world is becoming more an more secular, one can see this happening with atheism as well. You get those anti-religious bigots that want to actively rid the world of religion and are intolerant towards the religious. But they've just replaced the word 'God' which 'science and logic'.

[estella]

They exist? I thought they were just a myth!


I do agree with the assumptions that religion is deliberately exploited to the advantage of barbarians as mentioned earlier, but it is unreasonable to claim that religion itself is a myth that confuses people.

Generally, religion nowadays tends to be misunderstood by some population because it lacks celebrated scientific backup. Although I repect science with all means, I am still a firm believer. Besides, what do people call "science" or "facts" anyways? Even notions such as "the Earth is round" were regarded once as invalid or incredible, a myth! They became facts because they were ultimately proved through scientific research.
In addition, the Bible is historically proven to be a collection of written scriptures, so I dont think you are in any position to state what Wikipedia or Google hasnt told us yet.

In short, I just hope that if you dont believe in something, just say you dont! Theres no need to deny what other people out there trust in. :rolleyes:

[Halfmetal]

I can fully agree with that. Intolerance should be intolerated.

[Misschoco]

I agree with Rev. People can claim that they are fighting in God's name or that God told them to start a war but they're just using that as an excuse. We have religious wars for a number of reasons..People don't like another people and so they say God told them to go kill them, but God never told them anything. People's religions don't get along so they go to war with each other...Things like that.
If religion is seen as an acceptable excuse for actions of malice then its become somewhat of an officious thing to toy with. concerning the last point^ people are just natural at pouncing at other religions when their beliefs struggle to co-exist with each other

[Halfmetal]

If religion is seen as an acceptable excuse for actions of malice then its become somewhat of an officious thing to toy with. concerning the last point^ people are just natural at pouncing at other religions when their beliefs struggle to co-exist with each other

Yes but the point was that they were never acceptable excuses, and thus religion shouldn't be blamed. If people claim that their beliefs can't co-exist with others then we must analyse why. First, is such a claim true. More often than not it isn't. second, the one commanding intolarance for subjective reasons must be seen as irrational.

[Misschoco]

Yes but the point was that they were never acceptable excuses, and thus religion shouldn't be blamed. If people claim that their beliefs can't co-exist with others then we must analyse why. First, is such a claim true. More often than not it isn't. second, the one commanding intolarance for subjective reasons must be seen as irrational.
Also a point which I agree on though but didn't contradict.like you suggested religion is not to blame but the individuals who distort it for personal gain

[Ginryuu]

It's not so much religion's fault as it is the actual humans fault.

[Misschoco]

It's not so much religion's fault as it is the actual humans fault.
yup like suggested above-leaders draw on religion to justify a military campaign etc-people invariably involve themselves in power struggles and generate insignificant religious differences-as suggested to justify war

[Devious]

I do agree with the assumptions that religion is deliberately exploited to the advantage of barbarians as mentioned earlier, but it is unreasonable to claim that religion itself is a myth that confuses people.

Generally, religion nowadays tends to be misunderstood by some population because it lacks celebrated scientific backup. Although I repect science with all means, I am still a firm believer. Besides, what do people call "science" or "facts" anyways? Even notions such as "the Earth is round" were regarded once as invalid or incredible, a myth! They became facts because they were ultimately proved through scientific research.
In addition, the Bible is historically proven to be a collection of written scriptures, so I dont think you are in any position to state what Wikipedia or Google hasnt told us yet.

In short, I just hope that if you dont believe in something, just say you dont! Theres no need to deny what other people out there trust in. :rolleyes:
I didn't say religion was a myth, I said religious FACTS were a myth, since there's really no way to prove anything beyond using passages from the bible. And maybe a bit of carbon dating.

[Zen]

Religion is basicly something to belive in. to give people so have faith in something. That's all it is. Beliveing in some idol to try to help solve all your problems in the real world. This isn't some fantasy we live in.

[Halfmetal]

We're going off topic again.<_<

[Misschoco]

Religion is basicly something to belive in. to give people so have faith in something. That's all it is. Beliveing in some idol to try to help solve all your problems in the real world. This isn't some fantasy we live in.
In other terms religion is a dependency-is that what your suggesting?
We're going off topic again.<_<
nuff' said-for the sake of remaining on topic....
would you consider religion is becoming tainted if its used to justify war?

[Zen]

Yes. Religion is nothing more then a thing something to give people hope and faith in something. Someone to belive in that doesn't exist. Going to war because of Religion is nothing more then a lie. They just want an excuse to go out and murder someone. It's like saying I hate you because you don't belive in my religion So I bring you to war just for the fun of murdering innocent people. Is that wrong? or is it right?

[Misschoco]

Yes. Religion is nothing more then a thing something to give people hope and faith in something. Someone to belive in that doesn't exist. Going to war because of Religion is nothing more then a lie. They just want an excuse to go out and murder someone. It's like saying I hate you because you don't belive in my religion So I bring you to war just for the fun of murdering innocent people. Is that wrong? or is it right?
Religious differences precisely are used to justify conflict.as much as I dislike religion,'religion causes violence' is a fallacious statement.people seem to be susceptible to an influx of violence and seems to be an attribute of human nature.Religion cant obscure this attribute.I totally agree with your statements.

[Zen]

This belief in god is only a Idol to belive in. Something to make you feel better. Feel safe. In the real world the world isn't safe anymore. You see shootings on the streets, your parents fight, Rape, so on and so forth. You say you pray for peoples well being, but in actual truth your really on your own. Life is harsh on some people.

[Shadow Clone]

Yes. Religion is nothing more then a thing something to give people hope and faith in something. Someone to belive in that doesn't exist. Going to war because of Religion is nothing more then a lie. They just want an excuse to go out and murder someone. It's like saying I hate you because you don't belive in my religion So I bring you to war just for the fun of murdering innocent people. Is that wrong? or is it right?

yep exsactly what i think, there nothing more i can say about it as zen took the words out of my mouth.

[Zen]

;D it is what it is.

[Hextan]

This is a little off topic but it is one of the reasons I hate religion. These people need to be tortured then left with the pain for a while then killed. I mean :nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag: don't even get me started.

YouTube - The most hated family in America? what do you think?


And this one just makes me sooooo happy because Julie Banderas owns Shirly Phelps-Roper.

YouTube - Shirley Phelps-Roper on Fox News

[Zen]

Well if people didn't have anger then this society would be perfect.

[Devious]

This is a little off topic but it is one of the reasons I hate religion. These people need to be tortured then left with the pain for a while then killed. I mean :nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag: don't even get me started.

YouTube - The most hated family in America? what do you think? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQzP5SgnXGo&feature=related)


And this one just makes me sooooo happy because Julie Banderas owns Shirly Phelps-Roper.

YouTube - Shirley Phelps-Roper on Fox News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA)
Fucking bitch. Someone should kill one of her sons and see what she says then.

[OmiVersusXIV]

Yes. Religion is nothing more then a thing something to give people hope and faith in something. Someone to belive in that doesn't exist. Going to war because of Religion is nothing more then a lie. They just want an excuse to go out and murder someone. It's like saying I hate you because you don't belive in my religion So I bring you to war just for the fun of murdering innocent people. Is that wrong? or is it right?

I got to agree with zen on this one

[Misschoco]

This is a little off topic but it is one of the reasons I hate religion. These people need to be tortured then left with the pain for a while then killed. I mean :nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag::nag: don't even get me started.

YouTube - The most hated family in America? what do you think? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQzP5SgnXGo&feature=related)


And this one just makes me sooooo happy because Julie Banderas owns Shirly Phelps-Roper.

YouTube - Shirley Phelps-Roper on Fox News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA)

oh lawd delusional people Well if people didn't have anger then this society would be perfect. malice will always be a human attribute :aldo:

[steeld]

we'll never be perfect, it is not as much as religion causing it then people
It's actually just the classic saying like: power is not evil, or bad, it's up to the people how it's used.
I'm rather suprised how people can twist religion into something that it causes war, and suffering..

[Misschoco]

I'm rather suprised how people can twist religion into something that it causes war, and suffering..
Malicious desires-the main contribution.I agree with all your statements.